The Martin Logan CLX's, a true work of Art!

[admin]

Maybe I'm just a ML fanboy after owning own for many years... maybe my opinion is not objective.

But they did sound good to me. And perhaps what makes them sound good to my ears is not necessarily the way the amp is driving the stat and the cone, but their crossover? I really don't know. I can honestly say I would be happy with a 15A in my system. But I think we all have our preferences so it may come down to that more than overt speaker performance.

[AnotherJohnson]

I love the ML speakers without the captive amps.

I am a fan too. Obviously you’re not the only one who likes the 11-13-15 series which is also tied to the old flagship Monoliths.

But the captive amp models never sound right to me in demos.

I might be able to coax them into submission if I had them in my own room. But it’s a heavy and expensive experiment. In the history of ML, the CLX Arts would have been my end game were I comfortable with their fashion statement. Like Bobby and RJ, I would have added a BF-210.

[roberto]

Hola Chicos!

I have my BF-210 connected the same as you do RJ, but I did download the special software for it. This software is the best bass filter and also is the perfect match for the CLXs to my ears. When the filter is on, the white LED goes on (custom low-pass) and the variable cut frequency of the sub is by-passed. This allow to you to forget about your cutting frequency and the blend is like magic. Also, you can adjust the 25Hz knob for the right amount of deepness that you are seeking to your golden seat.

Phase is easy to adjust. Because the woofers are firing the sound to their sides, 90º was my chosen setting, bringing the most naturalness bass timbre and punch that I like. The bass drum now is like a bass drum, and the organ bass notes are very deep. The volume adjustment knob is tricky too. Choose the one that you do like and then bring it a tittle bit less, there, will be enough for the most critical listening and very enjoyable bass sound.

Congratulations again!

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, thanks for the info Robbo mate, that's helpful.
Makes perfect sense!

In fact the flash drive that comes with the packing, was already preloaded with the ARC software, done by my dealer, so all I had to do was execute the 3 button sequence once I inserted it into the sub. As you said, it's a marvellous thing!
I haven't use the PBK as yet... since this is sounding fantastic already and is a superb match. Most probably I'll try the PBK calibration later once the initial 50hrs has passed, as advised by ML.

I can understand why people would want to have two of these but that would be more suited in much larger rooms. Then again if they were going into very large rooms, I guess that's Neolith territory... I don't see the point other than a major price difference.

I've come across the comment made by AJ before, where some have never really liked the ML hybrids nor the new Masterpiece line. They claim that there's still a certain degree of discontinuity between woofers to panel... and even my good mate, who also owns CLX's, said the same thing. This particular camp actually prefers full range stats matched with subs, rather than hybrids. They have either kept their old CLS-IIz's or are still using the original CLS full range combined with a BF sub in dual config.

Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference that much at first... but when you do compare side by side, there's a significant difference. Full range stats or ribbon panels sound more open, the transparency is much fuller and reproduce the whole wave length as one large driver. The sub augments the very low notes and enhances depth plus weight. With the hybrids, this sometimes seems to be all over the joint... running haywire so to speak. I guess level settings need to be carefully adjusted but those hybrids don't have the level settings and finer adjustments that the BF series offer. That could be the issue, I don't know.

Will have to wait until ML releases another hybrid series that does a finer job. It's definitely a crying shame that the CLX's were discontinued. I guess ML wants to promote the mighty Neoliths in that case since the majority of CLX owners are using subs now...

Would be really interesting to see what they design in the near future.
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Would be really interesting to see what they design in the near future.
Cheers, RJ

I think they’re done … done in by the move to Canada.

That’s not to say that a Canadian design team couldn’t come up with a new full stat flagship. But things like the 40XW in-wall array that they have come up with aren’t really too exciting.

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/statement-40xw

It is almost as if the folks who bought Thiel had decided to try once more by buying Martin Logan.

[admin]

Something like the 40XW is not really an audiophile speaker in my opinion but really centered around home theater. Putting anything in a wall is going to be an accoustic sacrifice for aesthetic appeal. It has its place and they are targeting a completely different audiance.

Their real audiophile flagship is the neolith. But gee whiz is that thing expensive and ugly!

[AnotherJohnson]

Something like the 40XW is not really an audiophile speaker in my opinion but really centered around home theater. Putting anything in a wall is going to be an accoustic sacrifice for aesthetic appeal. It has its place and they are targeting a completely different audiance.

Their real audiophile flagship is the neolith. But gee whiz is that thing expensive and ugly!

They’re pitching it as competition for their stat panels.

ML is dominated by Magnolia HT sales.
They’re done.
The MBAs have it all under control.

[roberto]

I am 100% with you Admin, and the Neolith is ugly as the Hulk. I can't afford it, and also needs a very special electronics to make it sing to its full potencial.
As RJ in the name of the thread, the CLXs are a true work of Art. At this moment, I have all my system with the right burning time. To my ears, this is the most transparent, right with the image, great harmonic content, a resolution that makes me wonder of another well designed electronics, revealing what's in the recording, and when I am listening, I forget that I am in my room...it transported me to the event and I am there, enjoying those magnificent musicians playing there. Only magical sound. I really don't want to make a change of any component. For the first time in my years into this Hi End world, I am happy as being in Heaven. Yes, there are better speakers and better components, and when I listen those super goods, all what I say is: Wow, how good this sound is...but what you have in your room Bobby, is very very good too. It is a truly work of ART!!!
Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

I am 100% in agreement on the CLX Arts plus BF210.

In my opinion, it is THE best option for ML stat panel fans. I would have that system myself if I thought that my room would accommodate them.

I wish ML had not retired the CLX Art.

When I was seriously considering them a few years ago, my local dealer/friend talked to the highest muckity muck at ML.

They said the were not stocking them (this was before they were discontinued). They offered to build me a pair.

But the only way to get an audition was to travel to Scottsdale, Arizona where a dealer had a pair for demo.

Or I could go to Costa Rics and listen to Bobby’s.

I opted for the Revels instead. My wife was just not a fan of large stat panels having lived with the Theos for several years. She loved the sound, but was reluctant to have the even larger CLX Arts … her fear was that they would be too unwieldy should something happen to me that would require her to figure out how to get rid of them.

My local dealer would not have been much help to her.

Of course now I’ve gone down the Wilson rabbit hole. My local dealer is willing to deal with the Wilsons if it were to become necessary.

[roberto]

..."Or I could go to Costa Rica and listen to Bobby’s"...

You are WELCOME any time AJ!

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

..."Or I could go to Costa Rica and listen to Bobby’s"...

You are WELCOME any time AJ!

Happy listening!

I wish you were within a few hundred miles! I’d already have brought you some gifts from Tennessee.

[roberto]

A big brother hug from Costa Rica!!!

Happy listening!!!

[Big Dog RJ]

Very valid point in terms of when we are gone, what does the Mrs do with all this gear...
And the very reason I've left her a shoe box with all the necessary contact info. My trusted CJ & ML crew will take care of it all. Yeah, I'm sure they will...

Speaking of Neoliths, yes they're pretty weird looking in photos, like T-Rex at a wedding! However, when you get up and close to them, they are quite magnificent! Huge! Even bigger than CLX's and taller or I think it looks taller...
It requires a massive room, similar force to the Statements Evo-II's.

However, as Adimn rightly pointed out, they're not that pretty... hence the reason why the CLX's are called Art's, it is a true work of Art!

Even if I had that type of massive room, no I wouldn't consider the Neoliths either. In that case two BF subs loaded with ARC software & PBK calibration on the CLX's is what I'd prefer.
Even though the sub is there and doing its thing, the CLX's are taking care most of the full range. Just last night I turned down levels by one more notch... since it's nearing 50hrs. As ML recommends after the 50hr mark, finer adjustments are required. Initially it was on level 6, now it's down to 4, and all other controls as well. The ARC software corresponding to the particular ML speaker model is quite marvellous and easy to use.
The only thing is, it allows only 1 file to be downloaded and costs about $250.
The PBK mic kit is sold separately but is required for very finicky rooms where bass is boomy... not required in my case. The ARC digital interface allows for easy installation.

Yet another improvement last night, so it's getting better every time and sounds superb! I would say one BF sub is more than adequate!
Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

I have customers who have had used the ARC and the PBK, and they are loved of what it did to their sound. But the standing waves are still there, and the behaviour of their overall sound quality varies with the level. So, I rather use my ears to adjust the sound of my liking. Many so called audiophiles believes in quantity bass if what they like, and not in quality. They play musical instruments that have enormous bass, as an example an electric guitar, and they are super happy with the results. The guitar do not have bass energy, it is not an electric bass. Even if you tune the 6th string down to a C. I don't want to have a flugelhorn with deep bass or a trombone. My liking is to have the best naturalness sound coming from each musical instrument and to have their bass energy...not more. The interaction of the music played through any system with the room is what we, the users, have to adjust. Room treatment is a must, but this treatment should be taking care of the naturalness of the musical instruments. This is my liking.

Yes, the software and the mic are good tools...but I do trust my ears better. I do like a lot how my system is playing the music now, everyday I am more into what is happening with their performance than if I have good bass or midrange or highs. The truth is that there is not a perfect room or a perfect sound system. So, our ears manage the sound that we get. Or I should say, this is what happens with my ears. What ever you like is the truth for you. I do encourage to you to listen live instruments. Judge how they sound and try to emulate that with your system. Yes, this is impossible mission.

On the other hand, our system is getting everyday more precise. We can call every musical instruments into the recording. This is a very good thing. Also when you can tell the difference of a trumpet vs a flugelhorn. Listening them live, is another history, and the good thing is that we are getting there.

Enjoy your system. Enjoy all those wonderful musician(s) playing for us in our place. Catch yourself moving, dancing or tapping with your feet along the rhythm of the music. If you have this, it is a good sign that you are enjoying the music. Get good cables, get enough space at the back of your speakers and the wall, listen the fun of the musicians playing, and enjoy them!

Happy listening!

[Big Dog RJ]

Attn: Robbo & AJ and other BF sub owners;

Just need some advice on what exactly the Phase control does.

I've set it at 90° within the 90 phase gradient, seems fine! I was trying to check more about it in the owner's manual but doesn't say much. After the sub was initially calibrated and once it passes the 50hr mark then I'll make finer adjustments... but should I just leave the phase at 90° or 0° and what's the difference in these settings?

Best, RJ

[roberto]

RJ,

There is where you should use the sub. 90º is right! This advice came from my dear friend Peter Soderberg who worked at ML and also his ears were used to de final step of the CLXs. He has a very good ears. He used to handle my ML account. Right now, he is not working any more with ML.

In this video, you can see and hear if Peter is capable to give advice regarding subs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzCIMufCQLk

[roberto]

My controls are: Phase = 90º 25Hz knob = -3.4. Volume = about 4.7 (less than five) The custom filter is active in my setup, 35Hz is about right for the CLXs, if you are not using the filter for the CLXs. This setup is for my room and liking.

Happy listening!

[admin]

Attn: Robbo & AJ and other BF sub owners;

Just need some advice on what exactly the Phase control does.

I've set it at 90° within the 90 phase gradient, seems fine! I was trying to check more about it in the owner's manual but doesn't say much. After the sub was initially calibrated and once it passes the 50hr mark then I'll make finer adjustments... but should I just leave the phase at 90° or 0° and what's the difference in these settings?

Best, RJ

Setting phase to 90 is a little odd but it is what ML recommends. See the last paragraph here: https://www.martinlogan.com/en/support/ ... vailable).

I typically will play with the phase switches on my sub to see which one sounds better as I don't think there is a universal right or wrong and it depends on the room and setup.

To get the amplitude matching right I do employ a calibration mic as a starting point and then fine tune by ear/liking.

[AnotherJohnson]

Phase is a continuous variation of the infamous CJ 180 degree inversion. If you run the sub off the preamp, and the preamp inverts, you can fix the sound with the phase.

But since the amp is different in the sub, and since the acoustic center of the sub is different, and since there are other variables, play with it.

You will find some settings are too papa bear, some too moma bear, but one is for Goldilocks.

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, if 90 is recommended as a starting point, 270 would take into account the CJ preamp inversion. I used to start at 270, but you can end up anywhere because the sub isn’t actually at the location of the main speakers anyway. And further, it is A+ B Mono. And it all relies on the idea bass isn’t directional. Plus most rooms won’t support a bass wave below about 40 Hz, although some will.

The best guide is PBK and your ears. EARS EARS EARS … the location location location of the audio world.