The all new ET7-2 Pre-amp is here

[jahatl513]

Did anyone see the CJ facebook post about the new ET72 See the attached image of it. I was floored and taken by suprise. Totally new board so no upgrade path to it; it is a completely separate animal.
Here is the quote from FB; image is attached showing the insides
"The ET7 line-stage has now been upgraded to the ET7 Series 2. Upgrades include a much improved power supply reservoir and use of the same extreme quality I/O connectors found in the GAT line-stage. The ET7s2 picture here shows the upgrades, seen in the areas bounded by orange rectangles, and a picture of an original ET7 is shown for comparison."

[admin]

Really impressive. Look at the size of those caps!

[Bill Stevenson]

That is the kind of dirty trick that Audio Research plays on their customers. I hope Jeff offers some sort of a deal for existing ET7 owners.

[jahatl513]

Nope! I asked and it appears that the best they can do is offer that your dealer can take a trade on a new ET72 or GAT2. There is no retro fitting it. I'm told its a new board. All we are left with is, "If you like what you have then enjoy what you have". Yeah it kind of sucks but then again See No Evil, Hear No Evil,.... It explains the rumor about price increase happening in July.

[bear]

Agree with Bill. This is totally unacceptable to original owners of the ET7. I don't think Bill or Lew would have ever done something like this in the past . Jeff you must reconsider the lack of an upgrade path for those who spent their money on the original ET 7. I am no longer going to recommend conrad johnson until this lack of an upgrade path gets changed. Shame on you!

[Big Dog RJ]

Mmm... Oh well I knew this was going to happen one way or the other.

My 50cts analysis is:
1. In this current world of profit maximization, where a business must strive to reach into extended markets/ customer base, if they see it as ethical they will do so. Therefore, all I can see with this is the end justifies the means...

2. I'm affraid it's no longer about customer loyalty, those who can afford will definitely upgrade, and the new boss at CJ will do whatever it takes to capture this market.

3. I'm also well aware that our dear mates Mr. Bill C & Lew J are no longer in control of new product launches or upgrades. Therefore, this new direction and further enhanced models of series "2" will continue at a price.

4. C & J made history in the making by offering wonderful musical instruments that reproduced recorded music in pristine condition, no doubt, and most of all vacuum tube amplification that had the highest musicality factor.

With that said, my best advice as others have already stated, is to just sit back and enjoy what you have, keeping in mind that these products were originally designed and thought up by C & J themselves.

Therefore, I think it would be best to simply accept that this type of trend will continue and whatever we could afford we must enjoy to the fullest. As it clearly states in every owner's manual of CJ's - their goal is to heighten the enjoyment of recorded music!

From now on, I can clearly see that nearly every product coming out of CJ will be at a fairly high price point, further distancing the brand from being fairly affordable at a given point. On the other hand, they are nearing or getting closer to other markets that are willing to pay higher prices for legendary brands.

On a final note, for what it's worth, this is one of the biggest reasons I didn't even bother with the GAT nor GATS2 or even the ET7, mainly because there will be another one to out-class it...

Whether this performance margin is big or small or whatever board they place in that cannot be upgraded;
One thing for sure is that every product CJ has made so far, does have a certain signature sound, to that we have come to appreciate and love. The best of all is that CJ's previous gear still has that glorious golden glow, thus my sincere recommendation is not to feel bad about what CJ is and will continue to do but rather embrace what they have done and by all means enjoy the fine gear you have!

Cheers to CJ and its future!
Big woof, RJ

[Bill Stevenson]

Further thoughts. Pure speculation on my part. The fact that such a radical change was made to the ET7 so soon after it's introduction, coupled with the fact that the change reflects a substantial improvement, coupled with the fact that this change comes only months following the change in ownership of the company are all indicators that Jeff was not satisfied with the ET7 in it's original configuration. He is a perfectionist who wants new products to be as good as they can be before introduction. I hope that future releases reflect that approach anyway. If so, I think the ET7 might become viewed as an exception that reflected old think, rather than is a harbinger for future endeavors.

Now with that said, I would respectfully offer Jeff the following suggestion: Look at how Paul McGowan, the "P" in PS Audio, handles introductions of new models, offering upgrades where possible, or liberal trade-ins where necessary in support of customers. Think of it this way, how many ET7s would you actually have to take back toward ET72 or GAT2? What is your real exposure? What is the cost in goodwill to do nothing? What is the best long term business decision for your company? I say this with nothing to gain, except it is in all of our collective best interests to help you succeed. I don't even own an ET7.

Regards,

Bill

[Big Dog RJ]

Well stated Bill!
Some excellent points there for CJ managent.

Hope they take it in best interest.
Cheers mate and have a good one
RJ

[jahatl513]

I have to agree that something should be offered. They could have called it ET-9 or...? The fact the upgrade does not fit the old board (don't know if that also means chassis but..) some form of $$ to upgrade it giving a choice. It is not like the ET7 sounded bad at all. I had one and sold it to buy a GAT2 so I must not have like it that much. I still own my Premier 17LS and LS2 (10 Teflon caps and updated power supply) so that should say something.
The question I should have asked him is, "is there an incentive to the dealer to take it on trade"; something you are supposed to pass on to the old ET7 owner?

[admin]

I agree with many of the concerns mentioned here. Nobody likes buying a specific model and then soon finding out there is an upgrade version available (without a means to actually upgrade). However, just looking at the pictures posted I see the problem and why CJ is not offering an upgrade path.

Having a single circuit board means that any upgrade would require the components to be compatible with the older board. Otherwise, essentially every single component would have to be replaced. Going from the ET7 to the ET7-2 requires everything to be replaced (except for the external shell). That's essentially a new unit.

In the future, CJ may want to rethink this "upgrade" strategy as it may alienate customers.

They could separate the components onto different boards (ie signal amplification board, power board, controller board, etc...) This would certainly allow for easier upgrades. Much like how the phono section boards in some of their units can be put into their line stage only preamps.

The other thing that CJ could have done is simply called this a new model. When you reach a point where the entire circuit board is new, a large percentage of components are different, etc... you are essentially talking about a new unit. Don't call it an "upgrade." Just call it the next model in the series.

At the end of the day it is good to hear that CJ is spending significant time in coming up with new and improved designs. They do have to be cautious in not alienating their loyal customer base. Just my 2 cents.

[ronenash]

I have commented on this in these pages when the ET7 came out that CJ cut costs by using an electric capacitor in the high voltage supply, something they have always preached against. Only the entry level ET3 has this configuration. All other CJ amps and preamps have always used only polyprop caps in the signal path and the related power supplies.
If anything the ET7 looked like a scaled down version of the ET5. Just look at the insides, the ET5 has 14 2uf Teflon capacitors in the power supplies and coupling where the ET7 reduced this to 6! every such cap costs $250-300. That's a lot of cost saving. Based on the pictures above the ET7s2 has replaced the electrolytic capacitor in the power supply with polyprop caps like the ET5 and GAT. Still way less Teflon caps in the power supply than the ET5.
Now I will admit I have not heard the ET7 and CJ may have other tricks up their sleeves which make the ET7 a better sounding amp than the ET5 but based on parts count and quality alone, the ET5 is definitely much more expensive to build.

Just one persons view on this topic.

[jahatl513]

Honestly I bought the ET7 over a used ET5 because I figured the short run and many complaints on tube usage meant that in order to fix ET5 issues they needed a clean slate, hence ET7 and then they change it in less than many months. Hold on to your old equipment gents. Its tested through time and lasted for a reason.

[roberto]

Hola Ronenash, I sent to you the reply from Lew Johnson about what you are commenting. I am posting here the Lew replay about it..."...Dear Roberto,

It is true that the power supply filter capacitors in the ET7 are now electrolytic capacitors rather than polypropylene - with resulting increase in total capacitance, but the post-regulated power supply storage capacitors continue to be Teflon capacitors. Resistors in the audio circuits and related power supplies continue to be Vishay bulk metal foil. So hardly a "much lower and cheaper standard". And the ET7 features the revised voltage regulator circuit from the Series 2 GAT, a worthwhile improvement in its own right.
best regards,

Lew Johnson..."

Happy listening

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Maties, some excellent points noted for CJ's managent, I truly hope they're taking this seriously!

If I were in charge of marketing, social media plus online forums, this is one major site I'd be spending time with and recruiting a full time employee to monitor these discussions. The proof is in the pudding or shall I say in the upgrades...
Maybe I should apply for the position, after all I got 2 degrees plus a masters in business marketing... Nah better to just enjoy the ! Don't want to deal with this type of distortion or shall I put it - negative feedback.

I think this is going to be a trend, as was the case with ARC, far too many components released within a short span, it's fairly difficult to identify which is what.

The last time I did listen to the ET7 whiles it was partnered with the LP125m's (just prior to picking them up) we had it connected to the Quads, sounded marvelous and I actually preferred it over the ET5.
However, as noted here, it is basically a scaled down version of the ET5 no doubt.

I'm not really sure how exactly they got the ET7 to sound very good, I'm sure Jeff & the team must have spent a lot of time on its design but it clearly seems that he was waiting for the moment to release a series 2. I am thinking that it is the series 2 that will make a more significant difference over the ET5, compared to the standard version.

Another thing that can be a bother unless unlimited funds were available, is the cost of these upgrades, they're dam expensive! It's almost as if you're adding another component into the system. This is another reason I held back on the decision to go for the ET7, I sensed something was going to take place very soon...

Oh well, let's see what happens within the end of year and towards 2019, as for now my humble PV15 is controlling the monoblocks just fine and belts out some superb tunes! Why on earth upgrade?
Cheers Maties, RJ

[jahatl513]

As I implied in the beginning. I would not feel bad if I still owned a ET7. It sounded incredible. None of this can take away what we hear until you open the door and go listen to the new shiney thing and create discontent. The truth is degrees of perception but in the end it all sounds like wonderful CJ equipment. The fact its still called ET7 only with a 2 behind it, makes for discontentment but in fact it is a whole new animal and to what degree is it worth it to fret when we could be listening or buying more recordings to listen to instead. I could live happily with my Premier 17LS or LS2 and Premier 12 c1 updated mono blocks.

[Big Dog RJ]

Well said matie,

Or happily live with the LP125m's and the PV15!
Hey you forgot us humble folks down unda...
I just had to add my 50cts worth, all this excitement is making me drowsy ...

Yes agreed, those earlier amps of CJ are all wonderful sounding musical instruments in every regard.
Just gotta love it! As our dear mate from PR (Roberto) says "happy listening"!

The darn funny thing is, in all the great lofty systems I've /we've owned, whenever I sit down and do some serious listening, though CJ amplification it always makes me happy, regardless of which model!

It is quite ironic that this is clearly not the case in nearly every other brand... They all differ from model upwards and so does the dam price!

It definitely just sounds right!
Must pour that scotch and light that cigar right now!
Cheers, RJ

[roberto]

Hola chicos. I am very happy with the now old ET-7. I had previously an ET-5 that came here for an ECC-88 Philips brand tube replacement. It was giving some funny noises on the left channel, so I had the opportunity to have both side by side. My conclusion was that the ET-7 was a better choose for my liking. It showed a wider stage with a better musical instruments size and how they were projected in my room. Of course I could live with both super high quality sound. The ET-7 has more transparency and more dynamics. Also it is quiet, with much better signal to noise ratio. These are my findings...and also my liking. All I can say is: my system has never sound as good as it is right now. The Classic One twenty SE and the ET-7 came to give me all what I was missing from the hi res recordings. It is a marvellous experience to listen to the music with these magic components.
Happy listening.

[roberto]

Oh, I forgot to mention that the retail price for the new ET7-2 is $ 12.000.00 and the Classic One Twenty SE is now $ 11.000.00.
Happy listening!
R.

[jahatl513]

Roberto - when i hear that the Classic 120SE went up in price, it makes me thing that my Premier 12's just did as well, meaning it almost makes the older stuff more valuable; the sound is not that far off. Same for my Premier 17's; used prices should reflect these moves in the market.

[roberto]

Hola...you might be right with your thinking. I do believe that C-J never did build a bad product. I think that all models have their own signature sound and this quality products will be still a wanting to have and own hat product. When you listen other electronics, your heart keeps telling you how good C-J is. To me, this is a very good thing.
Happy listening!