Have GAT/2 and ET5 on hand need advice

[Bill Stevenson]

My dealer gave me a GAT/2 to compare to my much loved ET5. Problem is I had only Saturday afternoon to listen before heading out of town for a week for work. I will have another day or so to form an opinion at the end of this coming week before a decision must be reached on whether to buy the GAT. What I have heard so far is that the GAT has a more forward projection, deeper sound stage, very strong midrange and well defined bass and it is quieter. I hear no difference in the highs. The ET5 is softer on transients, easier to listen to perhaps because I am used to it, especially for vocals. Piano, on the other hand the GAT really is better at revealing the attack of hammers on strings, and the sounding board vibrations are palpable. I have a piano in my room for comparison and the GAT definitely wins the piano competition. But the GAT is almost harsh by comparison on vocals, trumpets, brass in general. Breath tones on read instruments are clearer with the GAT, but not always pleasant as with the ET5, a squeal on a clarinet, not uncommon with some old jazz is like chaulk on a board, literally painful. Dealer is trusted (bought all my cj from him) and says the GAT is a demo unit and is broken in. Both preamps share the same overall balance and tonality that cj is famous for. For those of you who have more listening time and have made a similar transition, please coach me on what to listen for so I hear the differences and don't miss something. This is a big decision for me and I want to get it right. My amp is an ARTsa if that matters. Thanks in advance for your help.

Bill

[kw6]

Trust your ears!

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Bill,
How's it going...

So you've managed to come across a GATs2, excellent preamp no doubt!
Comparing with the ET5, that's quite straight forward, unlike comparing with an ART, ACT2, or CT5, that would be quite difficult.

Since you're used to the ET5 and know its sound well, especially when your favorite music is playing, obviously you're going to judge the GAT and may find certain areas not the same, hence either overpowering or somewhat harsh...

This is the typical high grade Teflon's that are used right throughout the GAT, including very high quality computer grade film caps in critical stages of the power supplies. These take an awful long time to settle in compared to the ET5. Although your trusted dealer mate tells you that the GAT has been run in, not really.

The ET series preamps all share the same basic circuit, and the ET3, 5 & 7 all use just ONE high voltage gain triode, which is the 6922. These tubes are run "full throttle" in their circuits since they have to share voltage gain split into two channels. Whereas, the GAT, ART, ACT2 or CT5 utilize a series of tubes or a pair to share that voltage gain. Each set of tubes is designed and focused to operate on only one channel, whereby making the whole function of preamplification more efficient. In which case tubes should generally last much longer.

Although you absolutely love the ET5, and what it offers, which is certainly a fantastic job of preamplification, the GAT is simply several notches above, and for that matter this is the GAT series 2, which has been further refined.

I would highly recommend the GAT preamp, as this will be the ultimate preamplifier you could ever have in a very high level of musicality, along with a SOTA sound. Remember there are virtually double the amount of high grade caps in there, and the more Teflon's there are the longer it's going to take to settle in and deliver full bloom.

When I got my CT5 fully upgraded to Teflon's, which it already had but I increased the number of computer grade film caps and Vishay resistors, plus a host of other goodies, it is still settling in, although the unit is 10 years old! That was based on the original circuit, which has not been modified or anything but every cap and resistor has been changed. Therefore, the full break-in period is quite extensive. Each time I power up the system for fellow audiophiles or myself, the listening experience is Top Gear level - out of this world, and keeps improving several notches further each time.

As I wanted this to be my final choice in pre-amplification, plus it looks like The Star Ship Enterprise... That is both the GAT and CT5, not to mention the ACT2, which looks like the milenium falcon, these are top tier preamps from CJ, one of the most highly regarded and sought after names in highend audio.

Similarly, as you are faced with this decision, and this will be most likely your final preamp, you will not be disappointed with the GATs2, trust me I know!
Just give it plenty of time and it is in no way fully broken in. At the moment, it's about 50-60% and what you're hearing is about 60% of what this thing is really capable of.

Overall, it is quite different to the other top tier stuff in the past, ART, ACT2 and so, simply because they used slightly different tubes, which will engage the listener in a different way. At the end of the day, between those preamps it's a matter of personal preference but this is not the case here.
Between the GATs2 and ET5, there is no comparison!

Also on another note, give the Genalex Gold Lion 6922's a try, if you haven't, you'll be quite shocked at how well this tube performs and how well balanced the sound is.

I replaced all the 6922's on my monoblocks with these Genalex and so did another chap using the mighty LP275's, they are in a class of their own with the Gold Lions.

Having two of these in the GAT should also last longer than 6-8 months on the ET5, that's an awful lot of tubes to go through even in just one year.

All the best Bill, trust me when your GAT settles in nicely with your ARTsa, you'll probably fall off your chair/seat when it finally hits you!

Cheers mate, and have a good one indeed, RJ

[Bill Stevenson]

Thanks for your response RJ. Back when I bought the ET5 it was described to me a 1/2 of the original GAT, or put another way, the original GAT is essentially two ET5s, one for each channel. It has the same caps and so on. And in fact when I compared them that is pretty much how they sounded, that is: there was not a whole lot of difference for small group jazz, my main listening preference, but the GAT was much better on large group things. I remember it was particularly superior on the last movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony. But the tonal balance and overall presentation were not all that different. The GAT/2 suprises because the presentation is quite different, much greater projection, deeper sound stage, sharper, really quite remarkable. I wish I could have more time with it before deciding. Right now all I can say is that yes it is different, what I can't say is that I prefer the difference overall. There are things I like and things I don't like so far about the GAT/2, but that is based on a very short exposure of only a half day. Interestingly enough I did try a Genalex Gold Lion 6922 in the ET5 and it sounded great but did not last very long before getting noisy. Given the different topography of the GAT/2, it is likely that the Gold Lion would provide satisfactory durability and that is a very good thought.

[jahatl513]

I have had both and the ET7. Your problem was mine and I gave up the GAT2 because I felt my ears like the ET5 better. Yes GAT2 does thing different but overall sound they are CJ similar if I can put it that way. My ET5 was purchased for 3K, so it was even easier to let go of the GAT2. I"m intrigued as to what direction you go Bill. I'm happy to know you picked out the details in the GAT that impressed you. I also had ulterior motives as by giving up the GAT2, I cold pick up a Premier 16LS2 and live the old sound as well when I wanted to.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, that's correct about the GAT, in fact both versions are quite similar. Extended soundstage, more impact on transients, and probably deeper bass. However, remember that both versions require an extensive burn-in period. These are almost similar to the top of the line ARC's Ref series, which require somewhere around 600-700 hrs of actual burn-in before things start to really open up.

This is an awful long time and in fact some tubes don't even last that long on these preamps... So it can seem cumbersome and a "no point in waiting" journey.

Overall, if you feel that the ET5 meets your needs to around 90% and above, then by all means keep it! Simply because that's the custom sound you have developed your system around, hence something else would probably ruin it even though it is top notch.

When I received the GAT, and both versions, looking after someone's series 2 when they were just ordered and travelled overseas. I spent a full 3 months with both preamps, and at the time my speakers were the Quads ESL2905's. It was quite easy to identify the differences and after a while of continuous burn-in of one straight week (full run up from Sun to Sun) then on that following Mon I sat down for a serious listen and took notes.
The series 2 was superior in every aspect but it was certainly very different presentation to the ACT2, which I actually preferred.

So with that in mind, preferring the 6H30p tube over the 6922, was what I was after, hence settled for the CT5, which matches remarkably well with the monoblocks driving the CLX's, they particular system synergy is a special kind of custom sound that I developed over time.

Similarly, I think you've also developed that system synergy, might as well just sit back and enjoy it!
Cheers mate and all the best, RJ

[2bdude]

I had a very different experience. I never warmed up to the CT5 at all. Loved my Act2 Series 2, but not the series 1. Preferred the ET5 to the ACT 2 Mk2, but it was a close call. The ET7 was another level above the ET5. The ET7 series 2 is another step up for the ET7. The GAT or the GAT 2 is another level beyond all the previous models. I had tube issues with GAT and all ETs but the Phillip 88 from CJ has put an end to the tube issues. Never liked the bass on the ART preamps. CJ seems to have improved dynamics and bass control with each iteration while maintaining the CJ midrange magic.
I do think the GAT will show flaws in a system, but I would bet the bank its no fault of the GAT! Just the opinion of a life long CJ preamp user.
Enjoy all,
Woofer

[jahatl513]

To me the gap in price is not representative of the results. I believe the ET5 build to surpass the ET7 and my GAT2 was excellent no doubt but not worth the bump.

[Bill Stevenson]

Although it is certainly true that the build quality of the ET5 exceeds that of the ET7, it is not axiomatic that build quality equates to sound quality. I can think of any number of beautifully built components over the years that disappoint in terms of sound quality. My all time leader in that regard is a McIntosh C28 preamp that I could ill afford at the time and that fell far short of promise. But all that is neither here nor there right now. I really need you guys to help me to know what to listen for. What did you hear when you listened to the GAT/2? What did you like about it? What did you not like? This is the information that would be oh so helpful to me right now. If you have specific comments vis a vis the ET5 they would be helpful to me as well, but comparisons to others with which I am not familiar provide me with no insight. I hope you understand. Thanks in advance for your consideration.

[kw6]

You need a home demo.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes that's a definite! A home demo is the ultimate judge.
But then again Bill tried a home demo and seems to prefer the ET5 overall. That's the very reason why I suggested to allow plenty of time for the GAT to settle in... If this is not done and a demo is tried from a rush job then I'm affraid the GAT is not going to impress at first glance.

We can tell you what to listen for, and how different the GAT is and various attributes of its quality and what to listen for but at the end of the day, you need to listen carefully uninterrupted with your own set of criteria.

I would suggest make a list of the areas that the ET5 excels at and then see whether these are exceeded by the GAT , if so then it will be the one. If not....
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

I had a very different experience. I never warmed up to the CT5 at all. Loved my Act2 Series 2, but not the series 1. Preferred the ET5 to the ACT 2 Mk2, but it was a close call. The ET7 was another level above the ET5. The ET7 series 2 is another step up for the ET7. The GAT or the GAT 2 is another level beyond all the previous models. I had tube issues with GAT and all ETs but the Phillip 88 from CJ has put an end to the tube issues. Never liked the bass on the ART preamps. CJ seems to have improved dynamics and bass control with each iteration while maintaining the CJ midrange magic.
I do think the GAT will show flaws in a system, but I would bet the bank its no fault of the GAT! Just the opinion of a life long CJ preamp user.
Enjoy all,
Woofer

What preamp are you using now?

The CT5 I got recently is not an ordinary CT5, this is the SE upgraded version, along with added computer grade film caps and Vishay resistors in areas where there were already top quality parts. I paid nearly more than the actual cost of the CT5 itself just for these upgrades because I wanted to make this my final preamp. I also upgraded the power supplies and the current capacity of this thing on phono is unbelievable!

According to my CJ importer who carried out the job with the help of big cheese JF himself, he said that with these very rare and special upgrades, the CT5 is now ACT2 and ART status. So this is exactly the sound I wanted to create, so that when reproduced through the CLX's is live!

Bit hard to explain but if you listened to it, you'll get an idea. I can tell you quite confidently that it surpasses the ET series, only the GATs2 being marginally more refined.
Cheers mate, RJ

[Bill Stevenson]

We can tell you what to listen for, and how different the GAT is and various attributes of its quality and what to listen for....

That is all I am asking for and am ready when you are.

[Big Dog RJ]

OK Bill, I understand your question and what you are seeking.
I'll try to keep it as simple as possible:
1. The GAT will be able to hold itself and have a full grip on the power amp during loud passages.

2. It will be able to pick every minute detail from the source and present it in the most pristine manner, thereafter it's up-to the speakers to be able to convey this signal in the most uncolored way possible...

3. Will be able to provide lower bass, and more definition on bass lines, plus mid bass slam.

4. Mid-range and highs are pretty much the same as with the others (ET5 - 7, and so on) you may experience a stronger mid-range specially in vocals, where it seems as if the singer is very close to you, blaring out full blast!

5. The GAT may seem quicker on transient control and decay, especially on transient attack and the speed from note to note, and so on with perhaps more bite to it.

6. The transients on strings and bass strings will have a razor sharp focus/definition to it. At which sometimes on certain recordings this would be more relaxed and slightly softer but not on the GAT.

These are the main attributes to look for, but as I said also allow plenty of time on the GAT to settle in.
Cheers mate, RJ

[2bdude]

Hi Big Dog,
I am using ET7 series 2. My CT5 was not an SE version. I loved my ACT2 series 2. The advantage the ET series provides was a natural path for me to take. Dynamics, noise floor, and bass performance over-road the the ACT and its charms. I did not need the extra warmth and preferred the sound offered by the ET series. I owned the the AR Ref 5 and wanted the the strengths it presented and the CJ musicality and imaging. The ET (5/7 ) and Gat was just the ticket.
System matching is of course key in this decision process. What is not common is that we all use different equipment. That is why my opinion means little. If I had electrostatic speakers instead of horns with single ended amps then maybe I would have gone in another direction.
My newest arrangement is ET7 MK2 and Art 150 on Harbeth 40.2 Anniversary. Gat 2 resides on ART 300 with Wilson Alexia.
My opinion is the ET series for the money is a steal and the best value. Value as it relates to audio!!!!!
Enjoy all,
Woofer

[Big Dog RJ]

ET7-S2 nice one!

I have not heard this particular one at length nor in a proper set up. Just as it arrived at my dealer mates place, the customer was on his way for pick up but wanted us to operate once just to confirm all was well. So we hooked it up to a MF2550 amp driving a pair of Quad ESL2912's. It was very brief but I must say whatever I heard from it was outstanding even though it was only 30mins.

I'm planning on going to that chaps place for a listen later on, since he's using the ML Ren15A, and this is another stat hybrid I'm very excited about. So I'm looking forward to the audition sometime early Jan.

Very nice gear mate, SOTA indeed!
Cheers and all the best, RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey 2b, I was just wondering if you could also provide Bill some insight as to how the GATS2 delivers its sound...

He's desperately seeking advice on it and is very keen to know specific things about its sonic signature. Since the one I did have is gone back to the owner now, although the sound was a lasting impression, just like the ART, I'm sure you'll be able to provide a more updated write up, since you're currently using one!

Cheers, RJ

[2bdude]

Hey Big Dog,
If you got the means and your system is at the level of the GAT's potential, then the GAT cannot be compared to an ET. Dynamics alone is at a level that just screams at you. It does everything better and it should. Having a single tube for each channel, a larger power supply with the same circuit is pretty straight forward. If your system is at the level where the benefits of the GAT are utilized then its in your face another level.
I would never tell anyone which to get. If its in your system and your ears tell you that the improvement is not huge then why spend double?
Just my opinion. At this level what others say should mean little. Trust your ears. There is no wrong choice between any ET, GAT, or ACT series 2 IMO.
One last thing if I may stress this. The ETs and GAT drove me crazy on tubes until I got the Phillips 88 from CJ.The Phillips tube was a welcome fix.
Woofer

[Big Dog RJ]

excellent point 2b, well said!

As I mentioned to Bill the list of attributes to look for in the GATS2... given that these are happening or not, I think that Bill's system has already achieved this with his fantastic ET5. Hence, the level of improvement as you say is only marginal if at all... Justification in price hike, plus purchase to me, must exceed at least 45%, otherwise it's only an incremental step up.

I was told by my CJ importer before he did the upgrade, that I will be getting a completely different high SOTA sound once these upgrades were done, however it's going to cost! That cost was nearly double for what I actually paid for the CT5, since it was used very carefully, mint condition and I'm only the second owner, I thought might as well pay the extra $$$ and go ahead with the internal upgrades, and WOW! was I in for a treat!
Similarly, like you correctly said, if you can actually tell the difference and it's quite a significant improvement, go for it! Otherwise, might as well just sit back and enjoy the music.

Thanks 2b, I trust that Bill takes this advice with sincere thoughts and gives the GAT a good listen and compares notes to his ET5, by now I'm guessing that he would be able to tell whether the extra spend is going to be worth it or not.
A wise old man, once told he that in this crazy madness of highend audio, just because something costs more and is top of the line, doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to out-class an existing high quality component... That wise old man was my pops!

Cheers 2b, and all the best Bill, trust you come across what you're after.

RJ

[jahatl513]

Tubedude has it best. There is no wrong choice. Synergy is about all of the components. I agree the Gat2 was better than the ET5, but for the money, its hard to negotiate the differences. My Premier 16LS2.... for example,... is it better than any other?

A good compromise would be ET7 if price or spending that much on GAT2 is a bother.