ART 108A amp

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh yeah those speakers, the Ozzy's. There's quite a good following here and yes, they do love them. Apart from these there are a few others very sought after: Ambience (ribbon hybrids) look similar to the hybrids from Bob Carver designs, Huligh speakers- quite nice actually, dynamic driver type and well built, and then the famous Watmough speakers. The original founder & designer passed away recently and so his Watmough brand has become somewhat legendary here.

Although these are all quite good in one form or the other, they're not quite to my standards. In terms of transparency, depth, openness and most of all finesse, I believe the US designs are far superior in that regard. Wilson's, Genesis, Rockport, Magico etc are really up there.

Yes, as Admin very rightly pointed out, the CLX's are my end game, I'll probably go 6ft under with these stats, no doubt!
There's another chap I've managed to source here who does stat repairs and full mods. The only thing is, since he repairs or mods them they will never be original... and he even claims that. So what he says is that if you pass on the job to me, just letting you know that they won't be original parts, in which case they won't sound original... mmm something to think about.

That's why atm, the only chap who does fully refurbed panels with Apogee ribbons, and also produces the Apogee ribbon under his own brand, Graz is the only one person left over here, up state in Queensland. He uses the very best parts, Duelands and Mundorf caps, Vishays, powerful magnets and rare ribbon elements so on... very expensive for new Apogee's but not as much for refurbed panels. So that's where I'm thinking down the line. I've heard some of his latest Apogee's called A1's and A2's, and the Prerigree signature series, driven by both SS and tube gear, superb!

Until then, enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

This is most intriguing to me than ever. Simply because I've used and auditioned on numerous occasions other CJ amplifiers fitted with KT88's.

The Premier 11A, Premier 140, LP70S, LP140M, LP275M, MV60SE, Classic 120SE and even on my own LP125M's. Although it had a slightly different flavour to the midrange, it didn't quite have the extended highs or bass control of the KT120's or 6550's for that matter. Oh! I nearly forgot the KT90, even those have fine control on the bass and LF in general. An output widely used by Manley Labs and VTL.

Then CJ introduces the ART150 and ART300's, and bass control and LF drive are supreme! Then comes along the ART108A's, using KT88's and we're back to square one!
Not really square one per say, since during the golden years, CJ's preferred output tubes were the EL34 and 6550 but you get my point.

So now, with the ART108A's they've used the KT88's, which to me was a compromise compared with KT120's or KT150's. I wonder why JF didn't use the KT120 or KT150 in Class A output instead. Was it something to do with control and balance... as not to have over-powering tones or brute force... so you use just the right amount of Class A bias with a bank of KT88's, that are capable of holding steady Class A bias up to 160w...? I don't know.

That's still an awful lot of Class A bias. If the KT120's or KT150's were used, just a pair or two would be more than adequate to operate in Class A. Mmm... so this got me really thinking and is the sole reason why I must audition these to learn more about them. Very very interesting.

Woof! RJ

[Jazzy5]

108A mono, is my dream amp. Jeff says if you play music 3 hours daily, it will take you 3 years to get K88(16) replaced. He had an assembled kit sitting on shelf waiting for completion. it has big right and left(only 2 transformers-power/output) specially made for CJ in another state.
None was available for audition, I am sure if i had asked him or shown my interest he would have arranged it. I have already purchased A27 last year and Art 88 this year.
Truly a gentle man to deal with.

[admin]

Very happy to hear. I know we are all scared of the tube supply issue but a set of tubes really should last most listeners years. And even you elect to do a full replacement with a single tube failure, it's not a crazy sum when compared to the selling price of these units.

[Big Dog RJ]

108A mono, is my dream amp. Jeff says if you play music 3 hours daily, it will take you 3 years to get K88(16) replaced. He had an assembled kit sitting on shelf waiting for completion. it has big right and left(only 2 transformers-power/output) specially made for CJ in another state.
None was available for audition, I am sure if i had asked him or shown my interest he would have arranged it. I have already purchased A27 last year and Art 88 this year.
Truly a gentle man to deal with.

Nice one Jazzy5! That's already a fantastic pre-power combination right there... I think I forgot, what kind of speakers were you using?

If your playback presentation is effortless, not forced in any way whatsoever, and the main power amp has the ability to float an image right in front of you, that's it!

That floating image should have the following elements:
1. Absolute soundstage depth in 3D holographic detail.
2. The music presence wraps around you.
3. The speakers totally disappear, leaving just that image of presentation right in front.

If this is it then there's absolutely no need to upgrade to the ART108A's. That ART27A should be SOTA fine enough!
I've heard it with a GATS2 and it was superb! But on very high efficiency speakers though.

Was just wondering what your primary set-up was.
Cheers, RJ

[Jazzy5]

Thanks RJ,
current speakers-focal Scala V2(92db)- room 15feetx25 feet long. listening chair about 8feet in front of speakers(slightly toed in).
regarding floating image, I am sure #1 and #3 are met, i am not sure about wrap around sound. Playing Vinyl is not a concern due to preamp, volume set @1,is more than loud enough.
You are correct 108A is big brother of 27A meant for bigger speakers, Magico?.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! That sounds like a great match Jazzy5.

Those Focals are really good speakers, and the French based company certainly knows how to make really good sounding speakers. I've never owned Focals before but each time I've heard them, they've never disappointed. I think if memory serves correct... the last Focal based system I listened to had top line Moon amplifiers from Sim Audio, it was fantastic! The source was Reel to Reel Tape! Very nice, enveloping sound, it sort of wraps around the seating area, doesn't seem to come just from the front, rather from all sides in a full 3D affect. This is what I mean be "wrap around" affect, and only a handful of gear can go this. CJ is certainly one of those! The real wrap around affect mostly takes place with panels type speakers, being Dipoles, they can very easily create that enveloping sound, provided the panels are placed optimally.

Definitely no requirement for the ART108A's in there, you'll probably blow the roof off and your hearing, especially from 8ft away. The ART27A and ART88 with those particular Focals must be superb! That's SOTA mate, just Enjoy those finest tunes!
WOOF! RJ

[Jazzy5]

Thanks RJ, it is wonderful to get an educational wisdom and experience based knowledge to make an informed decision. I agree with your assessment that 108A despite, tempting to get,is not a meaningful priority in my situation.
Given current situation with high end stereo business/tube price and availability,it has not gotten my attention.

[Jazzy5]

US price tag is 52K for A108M

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh boy! 52 large ones... that's an awful lot of spend just for amplifiers. Then add the ART88 and that tops out at over 110grand $AUD. Can be negotiated on a few grand less but overall, still 100grand plus for the ART top of the line pre-power match up.

I'll get a chance to audition this July, appointment demos have been arranged. Also looking very forward to the Genesis Tribute speakers and another big Magico affair. One of the private dealers is using the ART300's on his newly built Magico M9's. I've been invited for the day but I'm not sure if I'm going to have the time to make that one, since it falls on the same day of the Genesis demo.
Will see how it goes.

Cheers mate, fab fine tunes!
RJ

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day maties, that time is nearing to take off to Spore! Look out! July 1st week, I'm off. Demos have been finalised on:

Genesis Tributes with VAC Statement monoblocks
Alsyvox Botichelli-X with Dartzeel monoblocks
Diptyque ribbons with Jadis Mk2 monoblocks
CLX's with CJ's ART108A's plus dual BF210 subs

That's about it for now, the only thing missing are the new Clarisys Audio panels, that I've been trying quite hard to audition but unfortunately none of the dealers have been appointed as yet. One of my trusted dealer mates said he has decided not to import the Clarisys line simply because they coat far too much and are made in Vietnam. This sort of business model between Spore (R&D), Vietnam (factory) and a head office in Switzerland doesn't justify its exhorbitant price tag, simply because it's made overseas and in the Sth East Asian region. Just because of Swiss backing, which doesn't contribute to any of the design elements or parts, that huge price increase from standard version to Neodymium version is not very well welcomed in Sth East Asia itself!

So according to my chap, he says if any of those parts were locally sourced from the Swiss alpines... then they could understand why the top dollar. However, when did made in Vietnam command top dollar items... that is the question.
Went onto say that not only him but his entire dealer network feel the same way, hence they've all opted not to carry the Clarisys line.

I've known him my entire life and from humble beginnings to now a real estate mogul who commands some of the prime real estates in Spore and HK. You'd think that money was no barrier... however even they have ethics at the end of the day. When things are made in the Sth East Asian region, there's not much Labor cost involved, simply because these are known as sweat shops churning out whatever you want at very very low cost. Placing multiple percentage margins on top just because the brand is backed by a Swiss cheese doesn't make any sense in the highend market, regardless of materials used. This was his last statement, and we ended our call.

Brings up another question, if Wilson, ARC or CJ were solely made in Vietnam or China, would they still charge 100grand for any items? I would certainly hope not!
Anyway, they're all still made in USA. Now that's a good thing!

There's a good mate of mine here who wants to purchase the Genesis Tributes but there's no Aus dealer/ importer. He'll have to go through my mates in Spore or HK for Aus / Asia pacific sales but the final cost of those big beauties when they land down unda will be a cool 250grand! I got the cost structure over the phone, just for kicks... damn what a price tag!

Until then, do enjoy those fine tunes! Will report once we're back in Melbourne.
Cheers, RJ

[AnotherJohnson]

Have fun!

[admin]

Sounds like it will be a lot of fun.

Completely agree with the gear made in Asia. I don't have a problem with it inherently, after all, you have the right to make it anywhere, but don't brand your gear as US/Europe and then have all manufacturing with cheap Asian labor and then price it as if it was made somewhere else where labor costs are significantly higher.

Really interested in hearing about your impressions with the Dartzeel and CJ gear.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, the new Clarisys line would have been better understood if it was simply made in a country according to its status, being quality parts, workmanship and high labour costs. That was one panel speaker I was really looking forward to an audition but not going to happen. Even after contacting the Aus distributor, which has been appointed by a chap in Sydney, they don't have a single model on demo! Which means no sales, zero interest due to its high price.

The Alsyvox line didn't do too well either, down unda only two sets were sold, since then nothing. Goes to show that price isn't going to dictate quality sound. For something that costs well over the 60grand mark and closer to 100grand, there's plenty out there for much less.

Anyway, as far as these auditions are concerned, all seems to.be on track, except for the ML's. Apparently the chap who ordered the Genesis, also wants them demoed before setup, so they're moving out everything else for a dedicated demo. Looks like the ML Statements Evo-II's and the CLX's will be parked on to the side. However, by the time I get there, things may change again, so we'll see how it goes.

Certainly good to know that it's still happening in those markets... the buying power is still fairly strong. However, over here things are getting worse. Interest rates were raised again! This is the 12th bloody time since that dopey governor of the RBA (Reserve bank of Aus) raised rates again! This idiot has nothing better to do than rsise rates, based on an old economic model since the 80's, which clearly isn't working to curb inflation. So us humble folks down unda can forget about highend audio, simply because it's more of a priority to make ends meet and feed our families. It's getting really tough now. I probably won't make a trip for the next few years if this is the way things are heading. Some families are really struggling. That RBA chief doesn't give a rats A because he's on a million dollar annual pay cheque, so no worries mate!

Just enjoy those fine tunes I guess.
RJ

[pfmmx]

I heard the new Clarisys at the Shunyata room at Axpona this year. It was their smallest speaker in a medium size room. It sounded very good.
-Good luck and have fun at the Singapore show. My wallet is too thin for that show or any show these days.
-Downsizing is no fun. Purchase a downsized second system and tell the wife you are thinking about selling the big system. The key is to not follow thru with the sale. Ha-ha. Of note, I am always on the verge of sleeping with my dog in my back yard. Take my advice with a grain of salt.

I had a bad experience that turned out pretty good. After playing an album, I hit mute on the Gat and had a large pop thru my right speaker. I hit mute again and the same thing happened. I noticed that the bias lights on my Art108a went red on the right-side quad. Not great. I changed tubes in my Gat and the same thing happened. I was thinking an output cap in my Gat or worse something similar in the Art108a. Did not sleep well that night. Next day I called CJ and got ahold of Jeff. I explained the situation and waited for bad news. He said I think I know what is happening. One of the input tubes on the Art108 has probably gone bad and has some leakage. Try replacing V1. I had a matched pair of Gold Lions. So of course, I switched out V2 and V3. Same pop with mute. Crapper. I replaced V1 as Jeff suggested and the problem was taken care of. Thumbs up for Jeff at CJ.
It was nice not having to enrich Fed Ex or UPS with another fix. Very pleased with the Art108a. I have limited cash: but. great tunes

[admin]

Glad it was just a quick tube replacement fix. The ART108A is an amazing device and Jeff really knows his stuff.

[pfmmx]

I was reading another audio forum on CJ products. The individual posted and wanted a little more Golden Glow from some vintage CJ products.
Unrelated to the Golden Glow post, a person on the forum commented on his purchase of an ART 88/ ART108a made some comments that were pretty interesting. Taiko Audio has alot deeper pockets then I do. He was tube rolling and my interest was his tube rolling on the ART 108a. He had very good luck doing some tube rolling with V1 on the ART 108a. I had done a little tube rolling with my CJ GAT. My current favorite was a NOS Mullard 7308. It was not cheap, but it is not crazy expensive either ($375 for a matched pair) It is a military spec and very quiet. Typical with a Mullard, great bass extension, slightly warm mid and solid(not exaggerated high frequencies) I liked the tube so much, I bought a spare set. After reading that other forum post, I thought I would try the spare 7308 in V1 on my ART108a. Turned on my system and held my breath as the warm-up circuit went thru its paces. When it clicked on and nothing blew up, I had a huge sigh of relief and took a long pull on my IPA. After everything warmed up, I played some tunes. It was too much of a Mullard good thing. I was transported to a very high-definition CJ sound from the early 90's. My PV9a was jealous in my office system upstairs. I listened for a few hours. Next day, I replaced the brand new 7308 in V1 on the ART108a with the more seasoned and broken in pair of 7308's from the CJ GAT. I had a slightly tired matched pair of Telefunkin E88CC and plugged them into my GAT. Much better. Sound was more transparent & balanced then my previous set up. Super happy. More open and natural then my all my all Mullard set up. I have had these Teles since 2014 and they are nearing end of life. Paid $159 each for a matched pair. Checked at Upscale Audio and the same tube is $399 each. Ugh. Being the cheap skate that I am, I plugged in a pair of 70's Russian 6H23 Reflector. Very nice. This is a poor man's Telefunkin. I have one pair that is a Series 2 that is a little warmer then the readily available Series 3. These are a little rare. I have some readily available 6h23 Reflectors that I bought from the Tube Store. Not quite as good as the more rare Reflector tube. For $129 for a matched pair of 6H23 tube is a bargain. Very quiet and super durable. With the bargain Reflector, the midrange is a little more recessed and not quite as warm. Still sounds very good. Super happy with the ART108a set up and the sound of my system. Very natural, transparent with a hint of warmth. I really like my CJ GAT. Very easy to tube roll. I have heard good things on the ART88 Pre. Two concerns; Hard to change tubes(Have to take off the cover). It is also kind of Fugly (I am getting shallow in my old age) My CJ Gat has much better aesthetics. Welcome any input on the ART88. Wallet is a little thin these days. Two thumbs up for the ART108a. Thanks!

[Big Dog RJ]

Ha, that's a great post mate. Sounds like you're trying to scratch that itch... with the ART88.

Reference to its cosmetics: yes agree, the GAT is a work of ART! Just like any of CJ's previous top of the line preamps: the 2 chassis ART series 1, Prem16LS, ACT2, CT5 and GAT. The ART88 doesn't look like anything in the photos though, you have to really stand close to one, then it shines, well sort of. The main difference with the ART88 considering all factors is that it's an "All tube" preamp, no SS buffered output stage. So those array of tubes used in the ART88 are all functioning on tooob power nothing else!

Due to this particular design factor, solely derived by JF, these tubes need to be carefully matched and there are no compromises at this level. It's not a real big deal to look at, certainly looks quite simple like the rest of the new ET series line up... but only when you listen then oh boy- Look out! It's also very very neutral, completely gets out of the way and allows music to flow. It holds extremely steady and superb control on the power amps been driven, no flaws here. As they say, the best preamp is "No preamp" well that's exactly what the ART88 does, it simply disappears!

Now, if I was the owner of a GAT or GATS2 for that matter, and I had the extra funds to spend on an ART88 and I must satisfy the "must have syndrome..." then by all means go for it! You won't be disappointed. Then again, in my case I never bothered about the GAT, although I could have gotten one, also never lusted about the ART88 either, just happy as with my CT5, it's mighty fine indeed! But hey, that's just a personal preference. Perhaps someday when finances permit I may consider the ART88 but by then this model will be obsolete, another one takes its place and the upgrade cycle continues.

If you get a chance to audition the ART88, only then you'll know its true capabilities and real performance. Until then, everything else is guess work. Similarly with CJ's new ART phonostage, which I'll get a chance to audition this Aug, have heard great things so far. Looking forward to it in person.
Until then, enjoy those finest tunes!

Woof! RJ

[admin]

@pfmmx
Wow, that is a lot of tube rolling. Very insightful. Must have been fun exploring all those different options. Definitely more difficult to do those kinds of things today with the crazy tube prices.

@pfmmx and RJ
As for the design of the new line including the ART88 it's definitely a more classic design then say the GAT. Jeff at CJ clearly wants a more conservative look. I think the GAT and my ART amps were probably the last of the "Avant Garde" design direction. No more curved plastic tube protectors and the angled case designs are gone. These kinds of things of course up to personal taste so there is no right or wrong. I like both styles. The new ART88, ART phono and ART108A seem high quality and look pleasing to my eye. One aspect that I really like about the ART88 and the ART phono is the continuation of the champagne gold top cover vs the standard black metal. It really gives it a high quality look in my opinion and reminds me of the excellent (and gorgeous) Dartzeel gear.