Audio Research CJ synergy

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HoneyBadger
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Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by HoneyBadger »

Hello !
I’m in a rebuilding process of my system. I owned ARC Ref75se and it is the only gear I saved for few years. It has only balanced xlr connections.

Anyway I have found a nice Premier 14 and would really like to hear from you guys about your experience with matching those two brands together, not only these two models in particular.

Thank you!
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by Big Dog RJ »

G'day mate, greetings from down unda.

The Prem14 is a fantastic preamp, and it will do a fine job partnered with virtually any top end power amplifiers, such as ARC so no issues there.

My only concern is the use of adapter plugs to accommodate XLR connections with the REF75SE. Earlier this year I tried out ARC's Ref160M monoblocks with my CJ preamp. Since none of the CJ gear use XLR, I had no other choice than to use these adapters... it wasn't very good.

Later on, that same gear came back for a home trial but this tine with an ARC Ref6se. It was much better, everything was far more coherent and more palpable. However, all three units were returned, since I just preferred my full CJ pre-power combination driving ML CLX's. I've modded both my preamp and monoblocks to a higher Class A bias, therefore it's a custom type of sound, and matched with CLX's, there's nothing I further require at this stage

So, it all depends on what you're after and what type of sound you're looking for in your favourite recordings. If it were the other way round, where most ARC preamps have both SE and XLR connections, then matching with power amps that have either is more manageable.

However, with the ARC power amps, trying to mate them with CJ preamps is a tricky thing. If you can get away with adapter cables and you find the overall performance decent enough to enjoy your tunes, then so be it! However, I've found most of those XLR adapters, even though high quality aren't doing proper justice, compared to direct connection without using adapters.

See how you go, and keep us updated.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by HoneyBadger »

Big Dog RJ wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:01 am G'day mate, greetings from down unda.

The Prem14 is a fantastic preamp, and it will do a fine job partnered with virtually any top end power amplifiers, such as ARC so no issues there.

My only concern is the use of adapter plugs to accommodate XLR connections with the REF75SE. Earlier this year I tried out ARC's Ref160M monoblocks with my CJ preamp. Since none of the CJ gear use XLR, I had no other choice than to use these adapters... it wasn't very good.

Later on, that same gear came back for a home trial but this tine with an ARC Ref6se. It was much better, everything was far more coherent and more palpable. However, all three units were returned, since I just preferred my full CJ pre-power combination driving ML CLX's. I've modded both my preamp and monoblocks to a higher Class A bias, therefore it's a custom type of sound, and matched with CLX's, there's nothing I further require at this stage

So, it all depends on what you're after and what type of sound you're looking for in your favourite recordings. If it were the other way round, where most ARC preamps have both SE and XLR connections, then matching with power amps that have either is more manageable.

However, with the ARC power amps, trying to mate them with CJ preamps is a tricky thing. If you can get away with adapter cables and you find the overall performance decent enough to enjoy your tunes, then so be it! However, I've found most of those XLR adapters, even though high quality aren't doing proper justice, compared to direct connection without using adapters.

See how you go, and keep us updated.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
Thank you for your very informative response. I will try to listen to the cj with my amp, and compare it with a balanced amp .

Best regards!!
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by tonye »

For many years, I've had an ARC D70-II and a CJ PV9. For about 20 years they were tied together. At some point I updated the PV9 with teflon caps, while the D70 was on a 3-4 year diet of Sovtek/Svetlana 6500 and ancillary. The PV9 also got Russkie tubes, but I sourced those from the factory.

The sound was really, truly good. They D70 and PV9 complement each other. If you can live with 60 watts, that is.

Eventually though, I went to solid state class A amps, and upgraded to an ET3SE ( still have the PV9 )... which is also single ended... and most of the amps are both SE and balanced. I have not felt the need to use any kind of adapter because the cables are short, less than 3 feet, so there's not so much to be gained by going balanced.

So, yeah, while CJ has more a ripe sound, the ARC is drier... so the combo is good. But if using a CJ preamp I'd make a point of getting amps that can both be single ended and balanced. Putting any kind of adapter in between is questionable, IMHO.
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by Big Dog RJ »

That's a very good analysis T mate.

Just to add, this arvo I was at my Martin Logan dealer mates place, I needed to pick up another Voodoo Mojo power cord for the ML sub. Whiles doing the transaction, I ventured off into one of the demo and low and behold, there was the exact ARC pre-power combination driving a pair of PMC monitor speakers on stands.

This was the ARC VS 80 series power amp fitted with KT150's matched with the ARC preamp as seem in the pic below. The sound was quite OK... such that it had very good depth, excellent imaging (speakers simply disappeared), bass was quite solid and good dynamics. On other hand though it sounded very thick and veiled, not blurry but rather a sort of added heaviness. More body and fat-ness to the tone. Now this is certainly not a bad thing but quite different to what I prefer. Overall, I didn't prefer this type of sound.

Now, I can compare this directly to CJ gear, simply because I tried this very same combo at home on my CLX's. I also trialled the Ref160M's and thought this VT80S may be more musical but it had the same tonality as the bigger Ref160M's, so that's about it!

With CJ, what I found was a remarkable level of musicality, detail, natural timbre and a very lively presence. Both had superb depth and 3D dimensionality, however the CJ seemed to take that beauty in midrange extension and high frequency to another level. CJ's bass is not as "heavy or thick" as ARC but is more articulate with a greater sense of agility. Low frequency speed is something that I've always preferred with CJ gear, and not just that but the overall balance is simply something to admire.

After trialling both these types of ARC amplifiers including the Ref 150, a few years back on my Quads, and now these two amps on the CLX's, I can clearly confirm that the CJ sound is at another level of pure musical refinement. It's musicality with finesse!

The one thing I did like about this particular ARC amp is that it has both SE and XLR connections, so in this particular case the VT80S can be easily used with any CJ preamp.
Most of the other ARC Ref series power amps don't have SE connections as an option, and as pointed out, those adapters are adding more coloration.

It was not a very big room, fairly small... so I'm thinking those monitor PMC speakers were able to deliver quite an effective LF response. It managed very well without a sub.
So, match this particular ARC amp with any of CJ's might end up as a great combination but that needs to be determined by the user.

BTW, I think those Ghost meters look pretty cool, on the Stereo version there are two sets of these meters on the front panel. In the Ref160M monoblocks there's one fairly large ghost meter display, looks brilliant!

Either way, it's a woof! So enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by admin »

Very cool. Agree, those ghost meters look great.

Having an amp with only XLR inputs really limits connection options. ARC definitely prefers XLR or single ended but I'm surprised they given up on single ended inputs on some of their gear when it is still the most common connection type.
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by tonye »

To be honest.. I'm not sold on current ARC gear at all. They've gone too High End... I prefer the old D70/D125 and VT50/100/200 sound... and the Classic 30/60. The amps were simpler, less money spent on cosmetics, more money spent on the stuff inside.

Although. the D70-II is, IMHO, still the best. All tube, all the time... nothing else ma'am. The D125 is also extremely good, but the less tubes the better.. and if you're gonna put an FET, might as well go to a Nelson Pass design!

I think the world needs a simple, stereo, push pull 4 output tube amp... 140 wpc with 2 KT150s per channel. No solid state nothing in it. Nothing fancy, just a case with a switch, a light and handles to carry it around. And hopefully under $6000.
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Yep agree with that captain!

I also feel, may be slightly biased here... CJ gear has something to it that ARC simply cannot match. I'm not sure if it's the power supplies, the high quality parts and simplicity of signal paths or maybe a combination of all these factors... whatever it is, that CJ signature simply takes off from the first note onwards, just marvellous!

After I did these particular demos on my very own system at home, (Ref160M's, Ref6se, VT80S and LS preamp) none of these combinations could create the overall magic and synergy compared to CJ gear. Hence, I simply do not understand how anyone having a top of the line CJ gear in pre-power and then change over to ARC. For reasons of a different type of sound perhaps... but for an improved one... I don't think so.

Anyway, that's a highly personal preference and I shouldn't make blunt statements like that. If at all I'm ever going to change from this tube finesse to anything, it would most probably be Pass Labs XA60.8 or whatever equivalent model that may exist in the time... and then I'm in a nursing home!

Cheers to all, and a very happy New year!
Woof to 2024!
RJ
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by admin »

RJ I think outlines this very well. At the end of the day, both CJ and ARC are tube based manufacturers but they come from a very different perspective. CJ desires to have the simplest design to achieve the greatest purity of sound. No bells or whistles. The fanciest thing you are going to get is a remote (,maybe). ARC is a different beast. I won't say which is better or worse. Certainly personal opinion and an individual's desired sound is going to play a big role here.

With ARC's recent near death experience, I wonder how their direction will change (if at all). This could potentially be a very exciting time for their company,.. or not. Time will tell.
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

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Hola Chicos,

My dear friend Roch Guistinianni just passed, and his system was marvelous, using a ET-5 with a LP125SA power amp with the CLX Martin Logan. He was very wealthy, and I had the chance to listen serious systems and electronics with him. He brought many different kind of speakers and electronics too. I remember that I got from him the Spectral DMC-10 preamp that blew my mind a long time ago. That was a truly SS good sound. Also got the Apogee Duetta, the Harold Beveridge 2SW system (tube powered electrostatic system) and the model 3.

His son in law, a great man, is another audiophile and he has the Audio Research Reference 10 preamp with the mono blocks Reference 160M power amplifiers. I knew that he is a very happy user of Audio Research. So, to make this story short, I opened my big mouth to him, regarding Conrad Johnson gear. He also has a pair of CLX and a Lampizator Big Seven DAC. Now he started using the ET-5 with the LP125SA instead the Audio Research and also he is now using a Holo May Kte that Roch had. He is saying that CJ has a lower mid-range with tight bass, with an open stage with a harmonic texture that is impressive. He is now selling all his Audio Research gear. I think that he has the original carton boxes. And he is going to sell this AR goods at half of price, All is in mint condition.

What really amused me is that once he was hooked by CJ, there is no turning back.He recently bought an ET-7V2 in the US used marked. He is in heaven as I am...

Or I am a good mouth talker, or the truth is: CJ really sounds right! I spent several days adjusting all his system, and the truth is what a fantastic sound he has there in his house. His room is much bigger than mine, so soon I am going to have a room just a little bit bigger than his...ssssooooonnnn.
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Nice one Robbo mate!

So you're close mate is now using the LP125-SA with an ET7-S2... that's a very fine combination driving the CLX's!

I can certainly confirm those findings and preference to that particular combination because I tried those very same REF160 amps here! I didn't use the ARC Ref10 though but an equally top level preamp which was the Ref6SE, and I also had that same combination of ARC's LS preamp with the new VT80S (KT150) stereo power amp as shown in my pics above. Regardless of what levels we listened to, starting from 8pm all the way to 3am... there was simply no comparison to the CJ gear. And with my special mods added on the power amps, that overall finesse was on another level! It's something to do with that very word "Finesse" it has all the tube power, musicality and wonderful open soundstage but that level of musicality and finesse is what has the extra edge on all CJ gear. It's just marvelous!

I'm wondering whether it's something to do with the fact that CJ preamps Invert phase (where they actually preserve the inverted phase at all Inputs). After the incoming source signal is inverted and passed onto the Output stage... this inverted phase is preserved and NOT inverted again at the Outputs. Normal preamps do this... and CJ Line-stages are not "normal preamps." Then when matched with a top level power amp, either the Premier, LP, Classic or ART series amplifiers, this level of synergy is on another dimension! That level of supreme finesse is very very hard to surpass. You need to spend a fortune to better or equal it and even that won't do justice.

However, it's not for everyone... but to us and every CJ owner, getting closer to the original recording is a beautiful thing!
Cheers and do enjoy those finest tunes!
WOOF! RJ
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by admin »

Roberto, very sorry to hear about your friend's passing.

But what a great legacy to pass on the gear to his son-in-law. So happy to hear that the next generation gets to enjoy such a wonderful system. The CLX's are such a great match with CJ gear. I think he is going to be extremely happy with the ET7s2. I love that preamp. And it sounds wonderful with the Holo Audio May DAC which I also own. I think he is going to have a lot of fun with that top of the line setup. ARC is some great gear and of course we all have our favorites but it does speak highly of CJ when somebody makes such a major brand switch.
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

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Chicos,
Just to say that Roch was who introduced to me the Holo brand. He had all the Spring Level 3 KTE models until I bought the Holo May KTE, and he bought it too after me and my thoughts about how really blends with Conrad Johnson. I'm going to list some of the toys that he had:
2 HSU VTF-15H MK2 subwoofers
1 pair JBL Model 4367
1 pair CLX Martin Logan
2 BF-212 Martin Logan subs
2 Descent I Martin Logan subs
1 Pass Labs XP-12
1 Pass Labs XA-30.8
1 Conrad Johnson Classic 60 power amp
2 McCormack DNA-750 mono blocks
1 Conrad Johnson ET-5
1 Conrad Johnson ARTSA
1 P S Audio BHK Signature Preamplifier
1 PS Audio Line Conditioner Perfect Wave P 10 Power Plant
1 Torus Line Conditioner RM-45
1 Schiit Jotunheim 2 headphones
1 Sennheiser HD800
1 Raal Requisite SR1a
1 Schiit Jotunheim R
1 Holo Spring Level 3 KTE DAC
1 Holo Spring II Level 3 KTE DAC
1 Holo May KTE DAC
1 Schiit YGGDRASIL DAC
1 Exasound E-32 DAC
1 Lampizator Big Seven DAC
1 pair Talon Khorus speakers
All kind of speaker cables and interconnect, balanced and single ended.
1 pair Wilson Alexandria XLF

And the list goes on...
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

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A mighty fine set of "toys" to play with. Put me in a room with that gear and come back in a year.... :)
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

Post by Big Dog RJ »

What the??? stop the train!
Some of my former dealers didn't even have such a comprehensive list of gear, damn!
Nice one Robbo mate, now you can open up a shop and sell off all this fine gear, and name the shop "enjoy those fine tunes!"

He even had the Wilson speakers, I wonder if anyone here would have been interested in those or perhaps our former members...
Anyway, I'm sure you'll know what to do with it, and find good homes for all this fine gear.

Cheers matey, and keep well.
RJ
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Re: Audio Research CJ synergy

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A fellow in Miami, ( his friend ) bought several things, including the Alexandrias.

As I said, he was a truly audiophile. Just go to this address and you can read his posts.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topi ... /#comments
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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