Premier 17ls pre amp tube question

[gibbonsc@pacbell.net]

Hi

Has anyone re-tubed the premier 17ls pre-amp with the Genalex Quad Platinum Gold Lion NIB 12Ax7, ECC83, B759 with gold pins? Are you happy with the tubes?

Thanks!

[Joe Appierto]

AFAIK the 12AX7 family of tubes are incompatible with the 17LS. When I owned the preamp I used various tubes from the 6DJ8, 7DJ8, 6922 and 7308 family with good success. I would not recommend the tube you mention (or any member of the 12Axx family) in the 17LS.

[gibbonsc@pacbell.net]

Got it, Thanks guys

[roberto]

Hola,
I’m a Genalex Gold Lion E88C/6922 gold pins user and I’m very happy with the overall sound quality. Good bass control, excellent steady stage and the harmonic texture of the voices and instruments.
Happy listening!

[hoodjem]

Greetings everyone,
I have just purchased a CJ Premier 17LS (to go with my newish Pass Labs X260.8 monoblocks). It comes with two Amperex ECC88 tubes and two Gold Lion E88CC tubes.

Could anyone on here give me a short primer on which tube brands will give what sound?
Specifically, what brands might give a cooler, more neutral, more revealing sound, and what brands will offer a warmer, richer, smoother sound? Are there brands that are both revealing and smooth?

I am moderately familiar with a few tube brands, having owned a Cary CAD-280 power amp. It seemed that JJ tubes were rather neutral and hard sounding. It seemed that Electro Harmonix tubes were fuller and richer sounding.

Thanks for any replies,
hoodjem

[Joe Appierto]

My experience when I had the 17LS was with non-current production tubes so I'll leave the sound characteristics primer to others.

That having been said, and no disrespect intended, you do realize that the Amperex ECC88 are 6DJ8 tubes and the Genalex E88CC are 6922? I had always read that it's a no-no to mix types because of the electrical characteristic differences.

[roberto]

I used in my ET-7 model preamp the Holland made Philips E88CC, with a very happy sound, but I had a noisy channel, I did change for a new E88CC and got another noisy channel again. Then I tried the Genalex Gold Lion 6922 and the overall sound was not as good as the Philips, mostly regarding the harmonic texture of the musical instruments, but ended with the Genalex. Now my ears are accustomed to the Gold Lion sound, and I find the sound quality with extremely detailed and right too with the harmonic texture. It offers a great stage, with good size of the instruments and voices with steady image, and really enjoyable sound quality. Right now, I don't want to change even a screw in my sound system. It is sounding that good!.

Happy listening!

[hoodjem]

My experience when I had the 17LS was with non-current production tubes so I'll leave the sound characteristics primer to others.

That having been said, and no disrespect intended, you do realize that the Amperex ECC88 are 6DJ8 tubes and the Genalex E88CC are 6922? I had always read that it's a no-no to mix types because of the electrical characteristic differences.

Really?!
I thought the 6DJ8 and 6922 and ECC88 were all equivalent and interchangable. Not so?

[hoodjem]

My experience when I had the 17LS was with non-current production tubes so I'll leave the sound characteristics primer to others.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that I was interested in only current production tubes.

I would be happy to hear about your experiences with non-current production tubes for the 17LS, also.

[Joe Appierto]

6DJ8 = ECC88
6922 = E88CC
7308 = E188CC
7DJ8 = PCC88

Generally speaking they are interchangeable so if a piece of equipment comes standard with a 6DJ8 you could substitute a 6922 or a 7308 (assuming the equipment manufacturer does not specifically state it shouldn't be done). But they are different electrically so if your preamp (such as the LS17) came originally equipped with 4 x 6922 tubes you could sub 4 x 6DJ8 or 4 x 7308 but you shouldn't as far as I know mix'n'match types.

What I did with my 16LS2, for example, was mix white label and red label Valvo 6922 (2 white + 1 red for each channel).

When I owned the 17LS and the 16LS2 I tried many, many different brands and types. Generally speaking the Philips (Amperex and Valvo) were excellent at throwing a dimensional soundstage and leaned a bit to the warm side. Clarity was excellent. Siemens and Telefunken were a bit cooler in presentation with a very good (if not quite as good as the Philips tubes) soundstage and equally good detail.

American vintage tubes from RCA, GE, and Sylvania were all over the lot in terms of performance. Some, such as RCA, would use rebranded Siemens tubes.

If you want to get a really good in-depth discusiion on the characteristics of the 6DJ8 family, I recommend perusing Brent Jessee's web site. It has a wealth of information on the history, characteristics and performance of vintage tubes.

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

EDIT/PS: Most of the members here, if they do express an opinion, would recommend sticking with current production as they are less expensive. I have tried the Genalex Reissue Gold lion 6922 and thought they were quite good. The Eletro-Harmonix were quite clean sounding. It was only my personal preference and just my 2¢ but I always gravitated to the vintage brands. Ultimately your ears will be the final arbiter.

[hoodjem]

6DJ8 = ECC88
6922 = E88CC
7308 = E188CC
7DJ8 = PCC88

Generally speaking they are interchangeable so if a piece of equipment comes standard with a 6DJ8 you could substitute a 6922 or a 7308 (assuming the equipment manufacturer does not specifically state it shouldn't be done). But they are different electrically so if your preamp (such as the LS17) came originally equipped with 4 x 6922 tubes you could sub 4 x 6DJ8 or 4 x 7308 but you shouldn't as far as I know mix'n'match types.

What I did with my 16LS2, for example, was mix white label and red label Valvo 6922 (2 white + 1 red for each channel).

When I owned the 17LS and the 16LS2 I tried many, many different brands and types. Generally speaking the Philips (Amperex and Valvo) were excellent at throwing a dimensional soundstage and leaned a bit to the warm side. Clarity was excellent. Siemens and Telefunken were a bit cooler in presentation with a very good (if not quite as good as the Philips tubes) soundstage and equally good detail.

American vintage tubes from RCA, GE, and Sylvania were all over the lot in terms of performance. Some, such as RCA, would use rebranded Siemens tubes.

If you want to get a really good in-depth discusiion on the characteristics of the 6DJ8 family, I recommend perusing Brent Jessee's web site. It has a wealth of information on the history, characteristics and performance of vintage tubes.

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

EDIT/PS: Most of the members here, if they do express an opinion, would recommend sticking with current production as they are less expensive. I have tried the Genalex Reissue Gold lion 6922 and thought they were quite good. The Eletro-Harmonix were quite clean sounding. It was only my personal preference and just my 2¢ but I always gravitated to the vintage brands. Ultimately your ears will be the final arbiter.

Thanks much. I certainly appreciate your knowledge and experience.

It sounds as if you are saying that these different types are indeed generically equivalent, but only as a group of four--not to mix individually or in pairs.

All good advice that I shall heed.

[Joe Appierto]

It sounds as if you are saying that these different types are indeed generically equivalent, but only as a group of four--not to mix individually or in pairs.

Yep, that's what I meant.

In re-reading what I said about American tubes it may sound like I was being negative about them. If that's the way it came across then I'm sorry because the US tubes were very good. What I meant was that it is difficult to typify their sound in general terms. As an example, the Amperex green label 7308 made in the Hicksville LI plant were among my favorites. The same for the Amperex white label PQ 6922 from that plant. Just outstanding. That's why I recommended what Brent Jessee has on his web site as a general guide. He goes in great detail regarding the various types and brands and what he writes is pretty much what I found to be the case.

It's unfortunate that the older tubes have become so expensive. Fortunately, the modern production stuff is quite good.