Using CJ preamps with other manufacturers amps

[joemarsh]

I think we all can state that CJ preamps are best in class. I have used vacuum tube preamps with solid state amps for years. I am considering my next amp and my shortlist would be something like: DarTZeel NHB-108, Luxman M-900u, and the Gryphon Essence. I'm wondering about others experiences with other amp manufacturers - especially Luxman.

[AnotherJohnson]

Aside from the literal physical compatibility issue (CJ is SE only), it will probably come down to the speaker load and your taste.

[admin]

Those are all top notch choices so it is going to be hard to go wrong in all honesty. Not really sure if there is a "performance winner" among them. I think this will come down mostly to "taste" and the only limitation I can see is that if you have a speaker that is really hard to drive you may need more than 60 watts....

Question, is there a reason why you prefer solid state amps vs perhaps going with an all tube design? Not that there is a right or wrong answer.

BTW- if I had a choice between the three you mention, I would probably go with the DarTZeel. There is something so eye catching about their design, I can't put it into words.

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Those famous SS amps... in fact I've heard all three of those and one of those I had a home trial. For me, it's none other than Dartzeel!!! All the way home... with this little piggy...

My second choice in SS with CJ tube gear, would be the Pass Labs XA30.8, or XA60.8. The XA160.8 monoblocks are even more powerful but that's some serious power in Class A before switching into Class AB. I've also home trialled the Gryphon Mephisto with my CLX's and Sonus Faber Strads, that was something else! However, the Dartzeel and Pass Labs gear have an extra edge on refinement with brilliance in transparency and openness. All three of them have a fine level of musicality, so no issues there, it's just a personal preference.

As for the Luxman gear... they're OK but it didn't quite engage me emotionally nor in sheer music. It was listenable and reminded me of McIntosh... on similar occasions I've come across quite the same type of sound. My ML dealer is also the dealer for Luxman and Accuphase and whenever I visit, which is quite often, he demos both types of gear on very high quality systems just for fun, so I listen as long as possible to learn something.

If I were to choose between Luxman, and Accuphase, I would actually choose Vitus Audio over these two. Vitus has a new stereo power amp called the SP series that operates in Class A 50w. They have the same series in monoblock version that operates at 100w in Class A and both are rated at 150w Class AB. Those Vitus amplifiers really bring the ML hybrids to life and beyond! Spectacular!

If I were to rank them as follows:
Dartzeel
Pass Labs
Vitus
Gryphon
Luxman and Accuphase

Again, this is a personal preference, so your preference to Luxman maybe to your liking, hence I can't recommend one over the other.

However, I firmly believe that Dartzeel is in a class of its own. Just superb! The Dartzeel integrated is the most insanely decently priced gear in Aus, starting at 64grand just for an integrated amp! The Dartzeel stereo power amp is 95grand, and their tower series monoblocks are 320grand... not bad at all! Might as well set up the gear in the dog house... after all that's where the wifey will throw me into if I were to ever get my hands on any Dartzeel gear. Dog house or not, they're just superb designs. There's no comparison.

Cheers, RJ

Oh! Forgot to mention, the preamps used were:
CJ ET7S2
CJ CT5 (series 3)
CJ GATS2
Pass Labs XP series
ARC Ref series

[AnotherJohnson]

I don’t know what models you’re considering, or your speakers, or your room, but you might consider the CJ amps as being synergistic with your CJ preamp (of which I also don’t know the model).

What’s your CJ preamp and what speakers are you trying to drive, and what’s your room like?

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, that would be a good starting point...
Those parameters are essential to know otherwise there are far too many variables...

Best, RJ

[joemarsh]

Those are all top notch choices so it is going to be hard to go wrong in all honesty. Not really sure if there is a "performance winner" among them. I think this will come down mostly to "taste" and the only limitation I can see is that if you have a speaker that is really hard to drive you may need more than 60 watts....

Question, is there a reason why you prefer solid state amps vs perhaps going with an all tube design? Not that there is a right or wrong answer.

BTW- if I had a choice between the three you mention, I would probably go with the DarTZeel. There is something so eye catching about their design, I can't put it into words.

It's a fair question. I've never used a tube amp thinking I was getting the best of all worlds. However, I've been at shows and heard the seductiveness of all tube systems - particularly the Zests Audio rooms. I was toying with the Premier 140 for a bit. Have not heard it though.

[joemarsh]

I don’t know what models you’re considering, or your speakers, or your room, but you might consider the CJ amps as being synergistic with your CJ preamp (of which I also don’t know the model).

What’s your CJ preamp and what speakers are you trying to drive, and what’s your room like?

Currently using a ET5 with a MF 2300A. Speakers are Dali Euphonia 4. Just stepped from a MFA preamp for phono to a Luxman EQ 500. Very lovely and a good step forward.

[admin]

Well, it is certainly something to consider. Also, something like a Premier 140 is going to be a lot less expensive than some of those other options you mentioned. So if you look at dollar for dollar comparisons, you can get some really high end tube amps in the same price range.

[AnotherJohnson]

I think they’ll all be a step up from the MF2300A (which is long in the tooth at this point).

An MF2550SE would be nice (used).

If you’ve got the budget for a near current model DarTZeel, you have a lot of choices.

A Premier 140 would be very nice, but so would something from the CJ Classic series.

If you stick with the ET5, or any CJ preamp, whatever you buy has to have a set of SE inputs.

A good thing about the CJ amps is that they will drive nearly any speakers thrown at them … but this is true for many of your other choices too.

Best of luck in your search.

[AnotherJohnson]

https://www.dali-speakers.com/media/328 ... uctpdf.pdf

The specs look like they can handle up to 350 wpc and that they’re nominally 4 ohms. Any of the 21st Century CJ amps should do well.

This review implies that they weren’t finicky.

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/dalieuphonia.htm

He liked them on several different amps, both SS and tube, regardless of power level.

If it were me, I’d try to find a deal on a good brand and model from the last decade. I’d strongly consider CJ because of the expected synergy with the ET5. Any of the CJ amps of the last 10 years or so will be an upgrade over the MF2300A in my opinion. Ymmv

[roberto]

Hola, this is my liking and my ears with my system...

Once I said that, the SS stage presentation is too forward, with much respect. The sound is like been the director of the orchestra. You are seating or standing in front of the musicians and also between them. I am not talking about bass, mid range or highs, it is just the orchestra, band or soloist. With tubes, you can choose easily where do you want to seat in the event. The sense of 3D with tubes is outstanding. This does not means that you are too far from the musicians. All depends with the cables that you are going to use.

I am coming from many super hi-end brands where I had the opportunity to listen and enjoy their sound. I had Mark Levinson (still have a mono preamps model A6), Krell, all Mondail products, including the Arangon models too. Bryston, Classe, Forté, Carver, McIntosch, ARC, Sanders power amplifiers, etc. and now I have about 5 years that I am enjoying Conrad Johnson again. I had CJ since 1982, including all Sonographe line.

Right now my ears are accustomed to the CJ stage presentation. Also the timbre. The right size of the instruments with no sore throats. Voices are projected to the air with space and air...this is what I love from tubes. Also there is a right musical presence with the instruments and voices.

This is my liking and not necessary must be your liking or why not, you might like this as many of us do. The kind of the illusion with CJ is remarkable.
And there is no excess of brightness, that I usually find with SS gear. There good sounding SS, but you can tell easily it is SS sound, could be tube like, but only tube gear gives the warmth, the colour of the musical instruments, with a naturalness and definition that make us to be in nirvana state.

Again, there is nothing wrong using SS. My believe is that the Vacuum Tubes are floors ahead of the SS sound. Here is another good reason the why: SS distortion is uneven, tube distortion is even...the distortion that my voice has and yours is even. All musical instruments distortion is even...

Happy listening!...

[Big Dog RJ]

Well said Robbo mate!

That's why tubes rule! And another reason why I simply can't let go of my current all tube gear and retire with a nice Pass Labs or Dartzeel... I just love that tube sound, especially CJ. It's no ordinary tube gear, very special indeed!

Perhaps the SS gear won't happen for me, as long as I can maintain tubes and keep an eye on tube costs, I guess we'll always find a way to maintain our precious tube gear. You just gotta love it!

That deserves a mighty WOOF!!!
Cheers, RJ

[joemarsh]

@big dog rj Well then, thoughts on a ART 150 versus a Premier 350?

[AnotherJohnson]

I know you’re waiting with baited breath for RJ’s input.

FWIW, the tube preamps seem to match nicely with Burmester solid state amps.

Whatever amps you choose, be sure they have single ended inputs because CJ preamps only have single ended outputs.

There are several vintage SS CJ amps. I am partial to the MF2550SE and the Premier 350. RJ has also expressed the view that these two are special.