Short Dropouts streaming to an external DAC

[AnotherJohnson]

The sound is like an instantaneous cut of power with virtually immediate return. The music is gone and returns in milliseconds. No other extraneous noises, although random noises (like refrigerator compressors) may be mistaken as related.

I have had this problem twice, and figured it out by serendipitous browsing of my new Bluesound Node on BluOS. I returned to the literature for the Marantz ND8006 and found it in troubleshooting there too.

Apparently both the Node and the ND8006 have a built in strategy for controlling jitter.

If the device you’ve connected them to (in my case the Levinson 5101) has its own jitter elimination strategy, it is possible for the stream to basically “fail” instantaneously while the clock synchs back up after getting out of kilter.

The solution in the case of the Node is to turn off this feature in setup. The solution in the case of the ND8006 is to widen the “lock window” in set up. In the ND8006 it appears that the problem is more acute for high sampling rates … and that’s exactly what I found.

So if you experience these millisecond sound suckers when streaming to an external DAC, look for this as a possible source of the problem.

When I hooked up the Node to the Levinson 5101 today I had these dropouts immediately. I never 100% got rid of them with the ND8006 streaming to the Levinson 5101.

Browsing BluOS set up, I saw the setting, speculated that it could be my issue, turned off the feature, and it’s not presented so much as a hiccup.

[AnotherJohnson]

It turns out the 5101 also has a setting to fix this issue.

PLL bandwidth. This impacts what incoming digital stream jitter it can deal with. PLL stands for phase-locked loop.

The “normal” setting is the default, but for high jitter sources, “wide” may be necessary.

So this issue of the clock and the anti jitter strategies that are used can cause dropouts when mixing a streamer with an external DAC.

[admin]

Different sources and DACs will employ technology to limit jitter. I can see how this introduces some incompatibility, especially with higher bitdepth and sampling rate audio. I have to admit that I have not had any audio dropout as a result of this.

I think jitter is like ground loops. In some systems it is a problem that needs to be dealt with, in others it's simply inaudible. I would start with turning off all jitter correction (if possible). If the dropouts stop, then there is you answer confirmed. Next, start doing listening comparisons to see if jitter correction makes any audible difference.

Actually, as I write this, I just realized I never did comparisons with turning jitter correction off on my Holo Audio May DAC. I'm actually going to put this on the "to do list." Sometimes it actually is better to turn off the "fancy" settings. Again, as an example, most users of my DAC prefer the no oversampling mode. Most commercial DACs oversample audio internally (they simply do not have a setting to turn it off).

Let us know how things go.

[AnotherJohnson]

Different sources and DACs will employ technology to limit jitter. I can see how this introduces some incompatibility, especially with higher bitdepth and sampling rate audio. I have to admit that I have not had any audio dropout as a result of this.

I think jitter is like ground loops. In some systems it is a problem that needs to be dealt with, in others it's simply inaudible. I would start with turning off all jitter correction (if possible). If the dropouts stop, then there is you answer confirmed. Next, start doing listening comparisons to see if jitter correction makes any audible difference.

Actually, as I write this, I just realized I never did comparisons with turning jitter correction off on my Holo Audio May DAC. I'm actually going to put this on the "to do list." Sometimes it actually is better to turn off the "fancy" settings. Again, as an example, most users of my DAC prefer the no oversampling mode. Most commercial DACs oversample audio internally (they simply do not have a setting to turn it off).

Let us know how things go.

From how it all sounds to me, I would leave the final clock control on, but I’d turn off the cheap clock controls in front of it. The unhindered Levinson 5101 is every bit as good as the reviewers claimed.

[admin]

I think we are discussing this in two threads. But to summarize:

1) I would turn off all jitter correction in all units (source and DAC). See if the dropouts go away. If so, then it's a jitter correction compatibility issue, go to step 2. If not, then look at cables, connection type, or a dreaded equipment incompatibility issue.

2) Start turning on Jitter correction in one unit at a time to see which one reintroduces the dropout.

Also, on the Node, see if turning off "Audio clock trim" in the BluOS app fixes the issue (it's under Setting, Audio).

And the other thing we should always keep in mind is, does the jitter correction actually improve the sound to our ears. Jitter correction is only important if there is a jitter issue to begin with AND it is audible. Dropouts are audible, so we don't necessarily need these jitter correction layers on board if there is no audible jitter in the first place.

[AnotherJohnson]

I may try the ND8006 streamer paired with the SA-KI Ruby DAC. Both being Marantz products, maybe they would be compatible.

My ears tell me that all streamers are not created equal, just as all DACs are not the same.

I started this thread to make this separate issue of compatibility the central idea. I’d never seen or heard anyone else comment on this.