Absolute phase MF2200 & PF2

[celo]

I purchased this combo. Why is it complicated to hook
up? I have never heard Absolute Phase Inverting, hook
up the speakers reversed negative to positive, etc.

Since I have this combo, will I connect everything like normal? Positive to positive, negative to negative? Or is MF2200 not phase inverting?

If I had only the PF2, how would I know if my other equipment was phase inverting?

Little confusing and why does Conrad do this? I read the manual but couldn’t really get it.

[AnotherJohnson]

Some people cannot hear the difference. Some can.

The CJ amps and phono preamps tend not to be phase inverting. The preamps tend to be phase inverting.

Most other equipment is either NOT, or UNKNOWN.

Most recordings are not, or unknown.

It is quite simple.

1. Trust your ears. If you can’t hear it, it doesn’t matter to you.

2. If you know that the preamp inverts and the other gear does not, hook the amp + to the speaker -, the amp - to the speaker +. If you do this, things will be correct for more than 90% of the time.

3. If you’re not sure, do it inverted one day and regular the next. Decide which you like better and do that.

It’s not rocket science. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Most of all, have fun!

[AnotherJohnson]

FWIW, CJ does this ( makes their preamps inverting) because they would need another stage to invert it back to no inversion, and they believe that the gear sounds best with the simplest circuit. It is free for you to flip the wires at the speaker, so they recommend this.

FWIW#2, Audio Research Corporation circuits typically do not invert, but they include a button on the remote to invert on the fly. They do this so that you can correct for the odd recording that is already inverted due to wiring choices during performance, mixing, mastering, and cutting of the master disk.

[celo]

Thanks. It makes more sense now. I am always weird about inverting connections to harm the equipment, especially my speakers. I know it is fine but still

[admin]

The idea is that you want to have the simplest design for optimal sound quality. So you can put in an extra layer of electronics if you want to correct the phase, or you can simply connect the speaker wire to the opposite terminals. As switching the wire should have zero negative outcome on sound quality, that is the choice CJ has preferred. I actually like the premise and although this can be a little confusing for the first time you have a phase inverting component, it's a simple solution to correct phase.

The manual is going to tell you if the unit is phase correct or inverted (ie the PF2 is phase inverted, the MF2200 is phase correct). So just switch the speaker cable terminations.

[AnotherJohnson]

I am really starting to think that the idea of inverting preamps is a red herring … a holdover decision from the earliest days and now a tradition.

I understand the logic, but the proof is in the pudding. Obviously if two preamps both sound great, and one inverts while the other does not, then this is not by itself the distinguishing descriptor.

The CJ preamps are great … but so are many others.

The tradition Is to shun all conveniences in the interest of sonics … I can support that idea, but it is easy to see why it is not always appealing to many audiophiles. I think this issue will escalate for streamers who are already picking streaming equipment based on the user interface. Sonics being equal, most will always choose convenience and simple use.

[admin]

I agree that phase inversion (or not) is not a factor when I choose a preamp (or any other component for that matter) because I also have not found it to be a significant factor in acoustics. Maybe it is the simple fact that it saves money by not having the extra components in the unit that do the final phase inversion and using "tradition" is a good excuse to keep manufacturing costs down a bit. Who knows?

Coupled with the fact that many recordings are phase inverted,... I think sometimes we may make too much of being phase correct.

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, this has been a little perplexing over the years and will continue to do so for those not familiar with CJ gear.

CJ weren't the only ones to "preserve phase" thereby having their main outs phase inverting... Lamm Audio also had this phenomenon and stuck with simplest circuits utilising very high quality parts, hence their pricing. I used one Lamm preamp back in the day, with the Prem8A's, it was superb!
Then came along the original ART preamp and so we sold off the Lamm.

I remember even when I first experienced CJ preamps, something was off... then sat down and went through the manuals, and read this red notice about absolute phase and getting the most from your cj preamp. Then I swapped only one speaker channel, and this was relative phase...
So in order to achieve Absolute Phase, both channels must be inverted, and now we've just added one full inversion into the system, therefore the total number of phase inversions is even (0 or 2) and now the system has achieved absolute phase. It did make a difference! Especially on panel type speakers, every little detail is so transparent, you can easily hear the difference.

Also used a Sonic Frontiers preamp for a few years before getting the PFR. Noticed that the SF preamp had a phase inversion switch, similar to that found on the front faceplate of the DV2B. It was a phase inversion switch setting between 180 degrees of phase, and on certain recordings this did work but overall, after swapping speaker connections it made things easier.

Second that, not all audiophile recordings are phase correct to begin with so this phase switch really helped with that.

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes !
RJ