The first review I see comments on how much better the new Backert preamp is compared to an ARC LS2 (which is about 30 years old).
So … YMMV … reviews are no substitute for your own ears. If it sounds good in the owner’s system, that’s all that matters.
But a review that compared the ET7S2 to a PV11, noting that the ET7S2 is better would leave me shaking my head at why I’d bothered to look over the review.
Last edited by AnotherJohnson on Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
Was a tough decision - the Premier 16 would have to be restored from stem to stern and I'm sure would not be cheap. The Backert has a really neat approach, a clean, well defined, sound and not fatiguing at all. I am thoroughly enjoying the system. I really appreciate all the input.
I agree with you about reviews- unless you can plug it into your own system -it would be hard to make a decision. I honestly was completely satisfied with my VTL MB250/ Premier 16/ ML SL3 for 12+ years. That darn ML sale July 2020 and the VTL 's acting up led me down this road!
The good news is my buddy bought the SL3 and VTL's and and I can hear them anytime. Who knows-he may want the Premier 16??
Soro86 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:02 pm
I agree with you about reviews- unless you can plug it into your own system -it would be hard to make a decision. I honestly was completely satisfied with my VTL MB250/ Premier 16/ ML SL3 for 12+ years. That darn ML sale July 2020 and the VTL 's acting up led me down this road!
I can sure relate to that. Everything seems like it is in a stable equilibrium, then one thing gets upgraded due to a great deal.
Before you know it, most of the system has been upgraded.
If you are a music lover more than a gear lover, you can happily go for years and years with a good system, as long as you don’t do comparisons.
But at the same time, churning can make sense if you can buy well, and then sell before the bloom is over.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
You are absolutely right. I think the dust is finally setting as I am now enjoying my music as before and not analyzing it. May you enjoy your own journey no matter the direction it takes you.
I never understand these types of questions. I’m late to the conversation but What was broken on the Premier 16LS2 that needed to be “restored”?
It’s a ridiculous statement to me, but on another note it sounds like the person wants a change either way, but lets get something straight; The Prem16LS2 was broke and therefore needs restoring and if not broke then what are you restoring? How this thread ever got off the ground is beyond me.
Also, a modified BLabs CJ is no longer a CJ. For the price of the BLas Rhumba you cold buy a used GAT; a new ET7s2, a USED ART s1/2… need I go on. There is no other pre; none from Pass Labs, LTA, Cary Audio or …. That can match toe to toe with how CJ throws a sound stage/presentation.
Obviously CJ believes that the Premier 16 was/is special.
According to their web site, they are still willing to upgrade these.
But as to the question “replace vs restore,” isn’t this just a natural question that any curious audiophile might ask?
For some I suppose the idea of replacing or restoring a perfectly good component would be heretical. For those folks, the answer would be “do neither.”
I would certainly not let Backert mod it. But that path appears to have already been rejected. Good.
The idea of restoration begs the question “with what parts?” CJ is still willing to upgrade these, but things like relays age out on the shelf. I dunno … putting a lot of money into old gear is always love driven, not wise financial investment driven. Nevertheless, the joy of an old friend’s return from the restoration spa may be priceless.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
Just thinking out loud, it was said at the launch that the Premier 16 was basically half of the multi-chassis ART preamp, at about half the price. It would seem worthy of the trip to CJ for its noted upgrade, especially for a listener who was going to keep it for the duration.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
jahatl513 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:29 pm
I never understand these types of questions. I’m late to the conversation but What was broken on the Premier 16LS2 that needed to be “restored”?
It’s a ridiculous statement to me, but on another note it sounds like the person wants a change either way, but lets get something straight; The Prem16LS2 was broke and therefore needs restoring and if not broke then what are you restoring? How this thread ever got off the ground is beyond me.
Also, a modified BLabs CJ is no longer a CJ. For the price of the BLas Rhumba you cold buy a used GAT; a new ET7s2, a USED ART s1/2… need I go on. There is no other pre; none from Pass Labs, LTA, Cary Audio or …. That can match toe to toe with how CJ throws a sound stage/presentation.
In reply- In my journey to try to save the ailing VTL's I've learned that age, heat, decay are the enemy of all hi fi equipment especially 20+ year old units- it may not be "broken" but does it sound the same as a brand new Premier 16? I don't know. Would sending it to CJ to be checked out and worn out parts be replaced make it sound different ? I don't know. I decided to forego all that. The Backert was quite enjoyable, livelier, and an improvement in different ways.
Anyone enjoying this hobby has to be a little off center for what we spend on it. I thank you all for the great discussion and suggestions. Enjoy the music... whatever you're playing it through.
Soro86 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:29 am
In reply- In my journey to try to save the ailing VTL's I've learned that age, heat, decay are the enemy of all hi fi equipment especially 20+ year old units- it may not be "broken" but does it sound the same as a brand new Premier 16? I don't know. Would sending it to CJ to be checked out and worn out parts be replaced make it sound different ? I don't know. I decided to forego all that. The Backert was quite enjoyable, livelier, and an improvement in different ways.
Anyone enjoying this hobby has to be a little off center for what we spend on it. I thank you all for the great discussion and suggestions. Enjoy the music... whatever you're playing it through.
There is a lot of wisdom and truth in this post … and on many levels.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
Quick follow up I thought I had sold the Premier 16, but after 3 weeks of a rather difficult transaction it is back.
Have to say, glad it returned as it is a beautiful piece. After checking to see that it is working, I definitely notice the CJ magic midrange but falls short in other places the Backert is strong - tight bass, well defined percussion,
So no replacement , no restoration as it is working. Going to have some fun now.
Plus, I get to stay on the CJO site!
With ebay you should expect unreliable bidders. It's just been the sad truth. I think places like audiogon are better as people try to build better reputations and the average item selling price on audiogon is much higher than ebay even though each review carries the same weight on the rating system.
I would be very cautious with listing a high value item with a starting bid of $10. You can get lucky if you happen to find the right buyer (actually two as the 2nd highest bid is what will set the selling price), but you can also be committed to a deal that significantly undervalues your item.
-admin Home Theater in Member Gallery Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Lots of folks don’t realize that the one who wants it second most is the one who sets the price in an auction.
In the case of the P350, it is a bucket list item, there are several bidders, and I think the closing price will reflect actual market value.
I’ve noticed this past year that there are a lot of “buy it now” fixed price listings that sit forever. Some (not dealer but individual) listings have literally been active since before COVID. Just because you “have to get $8000 out of something” doesn’t make the market offer more than the $5000 at which it would sell.
It is risky to offer a no reserve auction with opening bid request of a pittance. It takes a strong constitution to suffer through … but if the item has good visibility, is a bucket list item, and the auction is long enough (at least a week), it will suck people in who wouldn’t bid if it started at a fair price. Case in point - we sold a house in a hot market last summer, We had a cash offer in hand, but listed it at 10% less. In the end, the deal drove buyers all the way up to 10% more than the cash offer had been … and that was for cash too. More $/ft2 than any comparables.
Once people are bidding, the psychology of winning, and the draw of “what’s another $100?” takes over. I’ve seen stuff close higher by starting low and drawing in watchers who can’t help themselves become bidders.
eBay vs Audiogon? I find far more lowballers and grifters cruising Audiogon. But Audiogon is lower cost. Both eBay and Audiogon charge sales tax now. Both offer some semblance of transaction protections, but eBay’s are stronger even if they are tilted a bit in favor of the buyer.
As for what you’ll get, serious buyers use both venues. A good deal on one is a good deal on the other. If something trades for $1200, you’re not going to get $1800 on either.
And if you offer it for $900 BIN, it will sell on day 1.
I think with the P350, it would be hard to get $5k regardless of the sales venue. The one that’s being offered for $6750 will be there for a long time if the price is firm.
Asking prices on many vintage high end audio items this past year have been absurd and without precedent. But also without sale.
When I was trying to find an LS28 last month for a price commensurate with sane past selling prices, I negotiated with several sellers who were 25% high. While the first several wouldn’t come to a fair price, eventually one did and I closed the deal.
So … if something for which there is a market sits for a month or more, you’re asking too much. This might hurt, but you’ve got two choices : Hope the market rises to your price, or let your price drop to the market. Capitalism 101.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
With close to 10 bidders, I would agree. I always wonder about auctions that only have a few bidders. And then of course how do you factor in all the "buy it now" auctions or ones that accept offers. You never really know what those are going for.
-admin Home Theater in Member Gallery Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
