Dear fellow Conrad Johnson owners. A cap of my 20 years old 17 LS is blown away. So I try to get a new one. Two options: I could order a set of teflon caps (cost a lot of money) or trying to get an alternative cap for the 17 LS, giving my son the 17 LS and buying myself an ET 7 S2 for my birthday
But what do you think about the ET 7 S 2 ? Is it really soundwise that good compared to my 17 LS? You will not believe it but the only Conrad Johnson shop in the Netherlands was around the corner. It stopped two years ago and buying an ET 7 S 2 is a sort of a gamble. And what do you think soundwise of the Backert lab alternative.
I know these have been discussed in other threads, but the search engine says premier 17 LS is too common to discriminate.
Sigh ...
I can’t say anything about the 17LS, except that they’re obviously very nice, but long in the tooth. Cap failure by itself is age related as a rule. If you do have it recapped, I think it would be worth going for the CJ proprietary Teflon caps.
Meanwhile, I do have an ET7 S2, and in my system, it gives the clearest, most neutral presentation I’ve had. It would be a very nice birthday present. And think how happy you will make your son too.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
It’s pretty much due to my faith in CJ’s direction and vision.
As a rule over several decades, the new models have surpassed the models they’ve replaced. There are two decades separating the 17LS from the ET7. Side by side, it’s hard to imagine that a discerning listener wouldn’t hear differences. And most reviewers would consider the differences to be in favor of the newer model.
I have been surprised at how clearly “perfect” has been improved on since my first truly high end system 35 years ago.
One can be very happy if one does not do comparisons. Even a PV5 sounds delightful if it’s in proper shape.
At 20 years old, you owe it to yourself to retire the 17LS and treat yourself to the 21st century.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
Thank you for your nice answer Mr Johnson and you are probably right. Nice turntable system by the way. Mine is an Oracle Delphi Mark V, Graham 2.2 and Benz Ruby Z cartridge and a Pass Clone Phono stage.
About my son. He just finished his Economics studies in Rotterdam and it is very hard to find a job during the Corona. But he started a post master studies Climat policy and want to pay it himself. Some stimulance will be good. He is an ardent music lover.
Although the Prem 17LS was designed based on CJ's premier standards using high quality parts and build plus a truly reference sound, that was basically back then...
Now, with the introduction of CJ's latest offerings, the shortest possible signal paths are incorporated, highest quality parts are used throughout, along with proprietary and discrete circuits plus upgraded power supplies, evolves into a more purer and natural sound.
With these latest preamps, more of the music flows through, where you may not even notice the preamp at all! At this level it becomes totally transparent, and that's the natural tone, the absolute sound.
That's basically the sound you want, just pure goodness from the original recording, which in fact due to the many coloured variations of audio gear out there, re-creating the natural sound is actually quite hard to achieve. However, keeping things simple through the entire chain, from pre-power- source- speakers, plus cables and wires to proper AC mains and grounding setup, will yield far greater results.
If and when you finally move on towards the ET7S2, you won't be disappointed at all. The only issue is, it takes an awful amount of time for those Teflons and high grade resistors to properly run-in... once run-in nicely, these preamps operate at a different level.
You are not asking, but If I wanted to keep cash in my pocket and move up slightly but yet more of a lateral upgrade. I have had both 17LS and LS2, ET7 S1 and others.
ET5 for $3200 -3500 range is an easy upgrade with Teflon inside the unit. I’ve done side by sides and ET5 is more refined, detailed and better bass. ET7 S1 was no huge leap from ET5 and thousands less. It all depends on your music, speakers, ear and other components down and up stream. If. You were satisfied with Pre17LS, you’ll be ecstatic with a ET5 and up.
I picked up an ET7S1 in essentially mint condition in the middle of that price window a few month back, so ... maybe you could find a 5 for even less. Used gear sells, but prices are soft.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
Any latest update from your comparisons between the two preamps lately? If so which one did you prefer so far and how does it blend in with the rest of your gear/system?
A good point Jahat raised in his post, which is what I was referring to last time. Although there's the latest and greatest, it may necessarily not be the best sounding to your particular system. Of lately my encounter with the GATS2 was good but nothing to be jumping up and down for...
As I've stated before, right now at this very moment I can acquire the GATS2 but to me it's not an improvement over my particular system and the way I've put together every component to reproduce a certain aspect of the sound. It is this total sound or synergy shall I say that holds everything perfectly together. By introducing another component it will not only alter that synergy but also force me to change more components thus, altering the balance and having to change once again, and the vicious cycle begins...!
The same goes with CJ's top tier phonostages, again it all depends on your particular system. The analog rig, cartridge output and particular setup, what's the latest and greatest may not necessarily end up being the best. By upgrading phonostages, I'd be compelled to upgrade the analog rig over again and the vicious cycle continues...
Now, I'm not saying that CJ's top tier stuff is a waste of spend, and there's no point in such expenditure, definitely not! They are superb in every sense of the term highend audio and playback systems, there's no denying that. What I'm trying to say is once you reach a certain premier level, the standards are pretty much set. The improvements thereafter followed by the outstanding gear is incremental not major. Comparing these to say the PV or MV series, and moving up to the premier, ET, Classic or Art series, now that's a significant upgrade! You will also find the percentage in improvement to be quite high.
The other interesting thing is, carefully well laid out system consisting of CJ's previous PV & MV series gear can actually sound really good, and sometimes upgrading from such classic gear may seem a total waste. I know many who are absolutely content with their vintage gear and absolutely loving it, simply because they're enjoying the music and not the gear...
You would have to carefully explore your upgrade path and see if that investment in terms of dollars is really worth it or not. I've set myself a very high performance benchmark, and some of my purchases have been well within this percentage and others not so. The ones that fall short, I really don't bother. And of course my wifey gives me the occasional whack with the kitchen broom. Hey isn't that spousal abuse?
You can probably gain greater improvements by smaller investments, achieving a great deal more with the gear you already own. Anyway, it's always an interesting venture as long as you can justify the spend and one that you're most satisfied with. Afterall, it's your ears no one else can determine that, not me, not us nor any reviewers... only you mate!
So see how you go, and I'm sure you'll find the right preamp that suits your system and room the best.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
So I'll take this thread in more direction. ET6SE vs the 17LS (no teflon capacitors). Reviews I've read so far of it and there aren't too many, make me think it's an upgrade at about the half the cost. I haven't seen many comments however on the ET6SE on this site. Thoughts?
Rich
I'm not sure either simply because I've never heard the ET6/SE. Although I did see it in person nicely warming up... didn't get a chance to audition. I'm thinking it would be an incremental improvement over the ET3SE series but not surpassing the ET7 series. So I guess it's a good investment if anyone was thinking of spending a bit more and going for an ET6se. Then again the ET3SE is a great preamp! Can't go wrong, especially the SE version.
Perhaps other members who've recently purchased the ET6se can provide their reviews. Would be good to compare both the 3 & 6 side by side.
Used gear will always fetch great vfm, and "carefully" used gear in mint condition will fetch greater value! That's one of the main reasons I'm not settling for a GATS2, although I have access to one. Improving from the CT5 I cannot justify the spend even though it may seem a bargain. I'm not missing anything whatsoever, simply because the tube topology is completely different. It's in the ACT2 league, and that was one very special preamp. Still regret letting it go.
OTOH if I was using an ET series preamp based with the 6922 tube topology then working my way towards the GATS2 would make more sense. However, I do wonder why someone would upgrade from a GAT/S2..., they would have to spend in the ultra-high-end range in order to seek any improvement. In that level, preamps such as Aries Ceret, Coda, Lamm Audio, CH Precision, Solution, Momentum and Dartzeel come to mind. I've heard all these top tier stuff and although superb in every way possible, at the end of the day I think it's the "type" of sound you're after. Nothing's perfect just different.
The last time I heard the Dartzeel monoblocks, I was seriously considering them, and more so the mighty Gryphon Mephisto. Then after holding back and heading back home, there's just something quite different about the CJ signature. That warmth, expansive enveloping sound is what the others lack but excell in other areas of sheer power, control and definition, of which again CJ's amplifiers all possess but to a lesser degree compared to these lofty ones. The only amplifiers that have that kind of signature are the ART300's. Then again there are many systems that don't require that kind of power. Newer gear and speakers are far more efficient to drive compared to the good old days of high Fidelity.
Now, comparing your ET7S2 to the GATS2, honestly speaking you're not missing much. The definition, clarity and refinement are the critical areas of improvement, I feel everything else remains pretty much the same, power, drive and control. The soundstage changes slightly as in a sense of depth and imaging but that's about it. In all my experiences with the ET series, GATS2 and the earlier Premier series of preamps, this has been my first hand experience and I've owned and sold a lot of them.
So getting back to the OP, Carl, when asked about the ET7S2 compared to the Premier 17LS, although it may seem a pretty straight forward answer, really it's not! It all depends on his particular system, room setup and other parameters that he could tweak to further improvements whereby realising just how good the premier 17LS is.
Only after such improvements and adjustments have been made and maximised on a particular given system, can it be justified that the upgrade is necessary / worthy.
The speakers interaction with the room are so critical, these two aspects are two separate components itself! When we were living in the little shoebox for many years, and in 2018 I purchased the CLX's I knew straight away I was not going to get the best out of them, maybe about 50-60% the most.
Moved to the new place in Nov 2019, and only now are they delivering their true potential, and my golly are they superb!
The improvement is beyond my expectations, way over 50%, as if the entire system was an overhaul but it's basically the same system. Only major changes now was the Esoteric digital gear and speaker cables, other than that pretty much the same.
I cannot emphasise more about the room, and some people overdo the room as to over-dampen it, that it kills off the natural tones and frequency extensions that CJ gear is known for. Anyway, it's a big learning curve and at the end of the day it takes time to properly assess all required parameters. Sometimes we can't judge it solely by ourselves and a little help can be useful. However, towards the end of getting there you begin to realise the strengths and weaknesses...
Then all there's left is to sit back, pour that scotch and light that cigar. Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ
Appreciate the feedback here, especially the thoughts on the used market. I had looked a little and hadn't found anything which is what led me to the ET6 question. Honestly I wasn't considering anything, but AJ made the comment very early on about the 17LS getting a little long in the tooth and his subsequent comments about the improvements that have been made in the 21st century, got me thinking about this. I'm actually perfectly happy with my current gear, but I also haven't gone out of my way to audition new equipment. And with everything going on in the world right now, it's especially not easy. And regardless wherever I hear new equipment is going to be much different than my listening room, so it's not really a great comparison. But I do trust the feedback I read on this site, which is what prompted the question. I've upgraded my PC enough times since 2000, so don't know why I don't consider the same in my audio system...well other than price! I'll start watching what's out there more closely and at some point pull the trigger. Thanks for the responses however - always enjoy all the boards here.
My 17 LS had been repaired and my system sounds excellent Again. Still dreaming of a new Conrad Johnson pre amplifier ( my birthday is februari 18th). But were to listen in Holland or Germany? You Will not believe it, but my Conrad Johnson dealer 5 minutes from my house retired for two years.
Glad to hear it's up and running again. Out of curiosity, what was the problem?
-admin Home Theater in Member Gallery Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
Thanks for sharing and your feedback. Always great news to hear that things are upto spec. Nice job on the fix, I'm sure you're once again enjoying those fine tunes!
