McIntosh Disscussion - Split from "Sonographe SA120"

[Bill Stevenson]

Lots of people would disagree with me, but my experience is that 40 watt tube amps (I started wit an MC240 back in the day) are wonderful as long as you don’t challenge them on the low end. Once you’ve had serious power, you’re spoiled for 40 watts controlling your bass.

I could not agree more. Way back in pre-history, I sold McIntosh and among others, Bozak speakers. MC 240, great amp for any Altec, JBL or Klipsch that we sold, could not adequately drive and control the low end on the Bozak Concert Grands, not even bi-amped. And just in case anyone wants to know, Saul Marantz had no better anwer either. Then the MC250, McIntosh's first solid state amp, solved the problem. Then along came Bill Johnson with his new D75, which turned everyone's head, but guess what, it was mushy driving Bozaks. MUSHY!!!! Terrible. A few years later the Audio Research D100 (you guessed it, Bill Johnson's first solid state amp) worked great with the Bozaks. Ain't life sweet?

[AnotherJohnson]

Lots of people would disagree with me, but my experience is that 40 watt tube amps (I started wit an MC240 back in the day) are wonderful as long as you don’t challenge them on the low end. Once you’ve had serious power, you’re spoiled for 40 watts controlling your bass.

I could not agree more. Way back in pre-history, I sold McIntosh and among others, Bozak speakers. MC 240, great amp for any Altec, JBL or Klipsch that we sold, could not adequately drive and control the low end on the Bozak Concert Grands, not even bi-amped. And just in case anyone wants to know, Saul Marantz had no better anwer either. Then the MC250, McIntosh's first solid state amp, solved the problem. Then along came Bill Johnson with his new D75, which turned everyone's head, but guess what, it was mushy driving Bozaks. MUSHY!!!! Terrible. A few years later the Audio Research D100 (you guessed it, Bill Johnson's first solid state amp) worked great with the Bozaks. Ain't life sweet?

I wonder if you know my old friend Tom Manley. Tom was committed to Bozak and McIntosh. He was in sales in some other industry. But his passion was vintage McIntosh tube gear and Bozak speakers. He would buy, sell, trade, and restore. I haven’t seen him in over 30 years.

I’ve heard that in retirement he continues with a store front over near Knoxville. I’ll post a link if I can find it.

[AnotherJohnson]

Here’s a link. It might be fun for vintage McIntosh fans.

http://www.mcintoshaudio.com/

[Dogma]

Thanks guys!The history lesson is much appreciated and interesting.I've been perusing CJ preamps and learning more about about how the sound signature has changed over the years.The PV12 is the one that has my interest.There is a black one for sale that would match my Sonographe but the seller has put it on hold until the end of the month,darn it!There's a deposit on it:-(.
The more I listen to this amp the more I love it.It's nothing like any ss amp I've heard before.I haven't tried my old Rogue pre with it yet,just swapped in some nos TungSols in the MicroZOTL2 and got lost in the music last evening.

[AnotherJohnson]

The more I listen to this amp the more I love it.It's nothing like any ss amp I've heard before.I haven't tried my old Rogue pre with it yet,just swapped in some nos TungSols in the MicroZOTL2 and got lost in the music last evening.

Don’t you love when that happens?

[admin]

Here’s a link. It might be fun for vintage McIntosh fans.

http://www.mcintoshaudio.com/

Very cool stuff. I've never had McIntosh gear in my system but have heard countless pieces of their equipment in high-end audio stores over the years. I think they have been and have continued to be very popular. I've noticed when I'm watching movies and there is a stereo in the background, it often is McIntosh gear. I think the last movie I saw it in was in "Knives Out" (a good movie by the way).

[Bill Stevenson]

Here’s a link. It might be fun for vintage McIntosh fans.

http://www.mcintoshaudio.com/

AJ,

Thanks for the link. I never heard of Tom, but it looks like he has a thriving business. While nobody ever got hurt buying McIntosh, it has been a long time since the company made anything that appealed to me (except for an MR78 tuner which I still have and use occasionally). I fell out of love with Bozaks after hearing a pair B&W 801s circa 1978 or so. Besides my wife still hasn't fully recovered from the trama associated with the size of a pair of Concert Grands that I toted around for over 10 years while serving in the Navy. They helped exceed a junior officer's moving allotment every time I was transferred. Let me recall: Seattle to Pensacola, FL, to San Diego, back to Seattle. Oh I was a sick puppy.

Bill

[AnotherJohnson]

While nobody ever got hurt buying McIntosh, it has been a long time since the company made anything that appealed to me (except for an MR78 tuner...

You and me both.
I think part of it is the autoformers, and part of it is the “features and specs over sound” approach.

My sense is that they have always focused on being very high quality, with the guiding principle that if it measures up to our standards, it will sound up to our standards.

To my ear there is a certain dullness about them until your up past the 450 wpc level. 450 and up sound ok to me with most programs and speakers. But they still won’t touch the LP275M which must have more headroom or something.

McIntosh is the safe choice for the salesman to push. They hold their value and they’re extremely reliable. If a guy with a $150k home theater budget isn’t sure what he wants, McIntosh is the obvious place to direct him.

[AnotherJohnson]

Those MC240s sold for less than $400 new. Now they’ll bring over $2k in excellent condition.

The 275s were more expensive and everyone wanted one. But the 225 and 240 were sweeter and easier to listen to. It’s the same today. The 275s are always out of stock.

People chase them so hard that McIntosh brought them back to get in on the action.

[Bill Stevenson]

[quote=AnotherJohnson post_id=10784 time=1595016104 user_id=the 225 and 240 were sweeter and easier to listen to. .....
[/quote]

AJ,

McIntosh's Gordon Gow came out to Seattle in the early days of the MC250. He told us that the goal was for it to sound like the MC240 and have the power of the MC275. For all practical purposes it did and in my view was the best amp they made in that era. Or if you wanted meters the MC2505 version. I had two of them to bi-amp my Concert Grands. But you are also right about the autoformers. They make the amps reliable but they sound dull. The Macs were beautiful amps, never missed a beat and of course I made money when I sold them. They were replaced by two ARC D100s, which easily sounded better. Those with a matching SP4A preamp were the first and last ARC products I have ever owned. What is needed is a line that offers great sound and great build quality and reliability. Gee, I guess that is why we all met here.

Bill

[AnotherJohnson]

Gordon used to come to the Nashville dealer, Nicholson’s, every year. There would be a team, and they’d set up a clinic. You could bring your gear, no matter how old it was, and they would recertify it on site. Sometimes they would actually do repairs.

On the last night they would do an incredible demonstration using the dealer’s best room and their best game. It was always exciting, and jammed with owners and would be owners.

Talk about customer support!

[Bill Stevenson]

Perhaps it is OK to relate this story now. Bob Carver was trying to build his first high power amp, at night in his home. He was making a living as a TV repairman. Recent University of Washington grad, struggling genius. He brought his prototype amp to the McIntosh Clinic at Gram-o-fon in Lake Park, just north of Seatte. Dave O'Brien, who was running the clinic, in fact ran most of the clinics at least out west, ran some tests, made some suggestions, Bob went home, back the next day etc. Bob had no money and no test equipment you understand. Dave and McIntosh knew that Bob was on to something and helped him. He was grateful for the help and I suspect still is. Two class acts there.

Another story. We had a McIntosh room where the demonstrations you describe were held in our store. In a separate room we had Bozak Concert Grands. The Mac top speaker, ML4C, powered by their MC2300, sounded spectacular in that room. But, it did not sound quite as good as the Bozaks biamped with MC2505s or 2105s, in an adjacent room. A fact we had to skirt on several occasions. We had a very good customer, a prominent physician who had a wife with a trained voice who sang in Seattle Opera, attending the demonstration of the introduction of the new ML4C. This was going splendidly we thought, except the wife was not impressed. McIntosh's Jim Carroll, quite sure of his ground, insisted we roll in the Concert Grands for comparison. He expected to sell a few pairs of speakers. A few weeks later we learned from the rep for both lines that Rudy Bozak was so pleased that he called Jim to thank him. Rudy, always competitive, had a keen sense of humor.

[AnotherJohnson]

Those were heady times!
Sure was fun.

[admin]

I split this discussion per user request from the origianl SA120 thread as it went to discuss McItosh gear. I think this will make it easier to find in the future and under the correct category.

The original SA120 topic can be found here: https://www.conradjohnsonowners.com/vie ... =11&t=1875

[AnotherJohnson]

Thanks!

[roberto]

Hola,

I became an audiophile because of my dad and Mcintosh. I still have in my storage room, a C22, and two MC2105. Those are really heavy. with beautiful VU meters. Before the MC240 was the power amp, driving the A7-500 Altec Lansing speakers. That was early 70s. He also had two Harley 24" subwoofers. Also with SAE electronic crossover and parametric equalizer. He had three open reel tape decks, Revox and Teac 7010. Two Thorens TT with the Shure Tone arm. He also add later a tangencial TT by Pioneer, PL-1000A. All the system was located at the living room. My mom was a saint. One of the walls, he built a super big box, where the 24" woofers sang there. And I do remember that you did not notice that the whole wall was a speaker cabinet unit he played the music. My job was to fix any failure (before the TEACs he had AKAI open reel) in the system.

This was 60 years ago...my God, time really flies. He had the patience to teach us (my older brother and I) how to play the system and I was more interested into the connections and adjustments. That was a truly fun experience.

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

I had a C22 too. It was the holy grail of tube preamps of the day. One in excellent condition will fetch a fortune today.

Compared to any of the CJ preamps, all the way back to before the PV5, the CJs sound better.

But the C22 gave you a billion adjustments and play back options. It was fun, until you heard the comparo.

[roberto]

Don't tell me that AJ, I have one at the storage room, and humidity did a bad thing. All the knobs are with a heavy corrosion. Perhaps I could get them new somewhere, and clean everything. I remember that there were no problem with the unit. Shame on me!

Happy listening!

[AnotherJohnson]

Another one I had was the MX110 tuner preamp combo.

They cost about $400 new around 1965ish.

They traded at $400 for years after through the 80’s.

I got one for free from an elderly friend 10 years ago. After he passed away, I sold it. Two Chinese traders bid it up to $1700 at the end of the auction. Now people ask $2700 for them.

Sonically they are VERY MEDIOCRE by modern standards. But they make a serious fashion statement.

[Bill Stevenson]

You got that right AJ.