Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

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montaldos
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Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by montaldos » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:53 pm

Please share comparisons if you have heard either the Premier 10 or 14 (I think they are supposed to be sonically identical), and the ET-3 (non-SE version). I owned/loved the Premier 10 but wondered if the ET-3 might preserve most of the rich harmonics and somewhat romantic balance, but add more top end air. Or is the ET-3 much more neutral in tonal balance? I cannot stand etch/brightness or a thin (what some people call neutral) midrange.

Love to hear any other comparison points between the ET-3 and Premier 10/14. Not interested in Premier 16/17 right now, in part due to price.

Thanks for any thoughts. I use digital front end and the system following the pre is CJ MV-60 (non-SE), Quad ESL-63s and Vandersteen 2wq subs.

afonso
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by afonso » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:49 am

No way ! CJ PR 14 is far superior than ET 3 or ET 3SE
CJ PR 12, PR 14, CJ EV 1, CJ DA2B
Accuphase DP 85
Micro Seiki RX1500, Ortofon Xpression + Ikeda IT 407 12"
DIY speakers with Seas Excel woofers and tweeters.

Secretariat
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by Secretariat » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:43 am

Oh, really, the Premier 14 sounds better than the ET3 or ET3se? Then, probably, I must stick to my Premier 14 as I was thinking of upgrading to the ET3SE.

Secretariat
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by Secretariat » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:12 am

[quote="afonso"]No way ! CJ PR 14 is far superior than ET 3 or ET 3SE[/quote


Oh, really, the Premier 14 sounds better than the ET3SE? I was thinking of upgrading my Premier 14 to the ET3SE preamplifier but I guess, it would be better just to stick with the latter.

Big Dog RJ
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by Big Dog RJ » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:43 am

Agreed with Afonso,

The Prem 14 is in a class of its own, only bettered (I hate to use that word) by the ART. Or may I say superseded by the ART pre. As I mentioned before, the Prem 14 placed in a top class system config, using top of the line gear will perform at a level like no other. It is a real treat to listen to one in proper working condition that takes superb control of the power amp and delivers breath taking sonics.

When referred to proper working condition, sometimes down the line after nearly 20 years of good use, the remote level settings for volume used to play up, similar symptoms to that experienced on my ACT2. With a minor upgrade to the internal wiring and mains power, this problem was sorted out. But this minor adjustment is to be done only after this symptom happens not during normal operation. If it is working fine, CJ advised to just leave it and enjoy it! It was something to do with the mains cord being too long, and located close to mains power supplies, thus over heating when powered for long duration, causing relay switches to go berserk. Once this wiring was re-dressed and modified, this problem was taken care of.

Funny thing, exactly the same issue happened with my ACT2, and so whiles it was being attended to, I got it upgraded to the Series 2, might as well.
And then I sold it, and now the new owner is smiling from left to right with a huge smile bigger than the grand canyon! Lucky fella

Thought I just share my 50cts,
Cheers RJ

ronenash
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by ronenash » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:53 am

I own the PR14, ET3SE and ACT2. In stock form I do not think the PR14 betters the ET3. However, if you upgrade a few resistors and upgrade to Teflon caps it is far superior to the ET3SE and really approaches the ACT2 in its level of performance. After upgrading my PR14 I sold the ET3SE and never looked back. 
ronenash
----
Power:CJ LP125m SE, Beard P100, McCormack DNA500, Krell FPB300
Pre:CJ ACT2.1, Pr14, Pr15
Analog:VPI Classic/Falcon/SoundSmith Denon 103R, Lenco L75 rebuild
Digital:J.River-->Chord 2Qude
Speakers:SF Amati Futura

afonso
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by afonso » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:39 am

Hi,


I agree with Ronenash, although i dont have a ACT2 to compare.

By the way this is the link where you can see my sucessfull teflon and resistor upgrades in my CJ PR14, PR12 and EV1.

https://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html ... nd%2Bafter

Regards
CJ PR 12, PR 14, CJ EV 1, CJ DA2B
Accuphase DP 85
Micro Seiki RX1500, Ortofon Xpression + Ikeda IT 407 12"
DIY speakers with Seas Excel woofers and tweeters.

Big Dog RJ
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by Big Dog RJ » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:09 am

Although this was a fairly old post as previously stated, my recent experiences with quite a number of combinations with ARC & CJ in relation to pre-power match ups, helped me to learn a few more things along the way...

1. The integrated amplifier- a well designed one will deliver all that is required from your favorite recordings. It will deliver music! If you want this level of scale and definition to increase further, an active line stage would be necessary, unless the speakers were of very high efficiency such as horns.
Some of the best horn type speakers I have heard with CJ gear have been, Avant Garde, Tannoy's and Klipsh (although these later ones are horn loaded) their sensitivity ratings are very high, making it a perfect match for well designed integrateds.

2. That pretense notion of the latest models of CJ preamps and amps not having that romantic golden glow is true only to a certain effect. I found this to be very similar on ARC's latest gear as well. As I was listening to the awesome REF75 with the LS28 or the GSpre with the GS150- the level of realsim was outstanding but there was a very fine level of musicality only found on CJ amplification, as we CJ owners all know...
Therefore, I find that the other single most important factor of whether being more natural or not, less romantic or thinness or not... is more to do with the type of transducers you are using.

3. The transducers/speakers: to me this seems to be a very critical factor. Simply because I actually tried all the very same pre-power combinations with my previous Quads (ESL2905's). The sound was relatively the same, it did not have significant improvements over one combination to another, and the only pre-power combo that made a huge difference was the ARTsa amp with my ACT2. That was the upper limit.

4. When I experienced the new Classic 120 driving the Martin Logan Ren15A, I noticed straight away not only can these new ML hybrids take more power, rather they open up to a whole different level, and one that is capable of that added weight and scale, without the worry about music being too thin or lacing that romantic CJ sound, previously known for.

5. Although CJ was previously known for that Golden Glow- caramel affect; their new amps are very musical in a away that is far more natural than ever. They can capture exactly what's on the recording, transfer that recorded signal into sheer musicality and present to you the full frequency spectrum the way it was "intended to sound" by the recording engineer/ artist. That intended sound is what these new CJ & ARC gear deliver.

When you partner these with uncolored transducers, you will notice straight away the positive/benefits of their new designs. I clearly remember in the past, nearly all ARC gear had far too many tubes in them, including CJ. Now their designs are more simple, less tubes and simpler circuits, deliver more of that uncolored music. Having said that, this is where well designed integrateds come into play, they have eliminated the preamp stage altogether, providing even less circuitry for the signal to pass through, and provide a much cleaner sound. Hence, when I tired these combinations, not one of them could match the total "quietness" of the CAV45.

I also strongly believe you can tailor make your preferred sound with proper well designed interconnects and cabling. Using some high-end fancy stuff might actually get things off to a worse start. Again similar to pre-amps, cabling must be as transparent to the signal as possible, adding subtracting nothing to it, just transferring the signal with much purity as possible.
I also spent a considerable amount of time with the new Nordost, DH Labs & Voodoo mojo power cord range. All were extremely good, with varied pricing. Both Nordost and DH Labs are superb with CJ gear and speakers, it's more to do with budgets and what people can afford.

Have a good one to all, cheers
RJ

afonso
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by afonso » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:53 am

Hi,


For me cables is very simple...

i use pure silver cables. I know that this will not be consensus but nothing comes close to pure silver cables.


cheers
CJ PR 12, PR 14, CJ EV 1, CJ DA2B
Accuphase DP 85
Micro Seiki RX1500, Ortofon Xpression + Ikeda IT 407 12"
DIY speakers with Seas Excel woofers and tweeters.

Big Dog RJ
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Re: Premier 10/14 vs ET-3

Post by Big Dog RJ » Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:03 am

yes, agreed. especially with cj amps pure silver or even silver coated works very well. However, this is very system dependent and must meet your expectations!

As a general rule, that I learnt from a very wise old man-
1. use a cable that had the most transparent sound.
2. interconnects that are not the most expensive but the most neutral sounding, this will allow more of the music to be heard through the transducers.
3. This should be attainable regardless of price. Therefore, if you find a cable & interconnect that meets the above two simple criteria, then everything else falls into place very nicely. Such as, separation, soundstage, depth, holographic imaging, speed, accuracy scale and the list goes on... remember these traits are not found on the cables/interconnects itself, rather these traits are found on your electronics. It is the cables and interconnects that create the path towards that sonic perfection that your system is capable of.

Cheers, RJ

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