PV1 MV50 MV52

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camusmuse
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PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by camusmuse »

Hello,

Introduced myself already and had some requests for pics....So, here are a few. If you didnt read the intro...heres my story. Have had the PV1 for about twenty years now(wow...hard to believe). I had it running some Infinity Q5(12" Watkins, 2" dome and the old style chrome emits). The speakers I had picked up for a song(about $100 if I remember correctly, refoamed the subs, replace a diaphragm(about a $100 back then) and very carefully resoldered a dome that I was told was impossible, but hey...dont tell me that, I'll just try harder....lol. I had rebuilt a pair of QLS1 speakers. The huge 6 foot tall monsters with like 12 of the same dome mids and 16 emits and that same watkins sub(and a "coupling" 4 inch mid). Needless to say I was very impressed with the sound, granted they had a solid 220 watts per channel of J. Curl designed Parasound 2200mkII. Well I was a tube guy and had a pair of dynaco st70s that I ran in mono to some of the "cheap" altec sm3 that I had modded "some" evil grin, another super deal, I think $30 at a pawnshop and a refoam and some minor crossover mods. But the infinity Q5 blew them away when I rebuilt them. Sadly the Q5 became too expensive to repair(before internet deals), so I retired them and parted them out, but still have and use the very nice walnut veneer boxes in my HT setup for my front subs(12 peerless).

ANYWAY, yeah I can ramble. The dynacos also were sold after the PV1 developed a hum that was more than just replacing tubes. So here I am several years later and I find a CJ MV52; same el34 basic pp as the dynacos...yes I know there are other significant differences, before I ruffle any feathers, the least of which was the price...that one I paid a fair price for, but hey it worked and I could plug and play. Problem was no "good speakers" so I threw together some planars to be mentioned later.

Now I have been planning on building some QLS "clone" speakers and have been collecting peerless 2" dome mids for several years(hey Im cheap if you couldnt tell, and very patient on Fleabay), and also found that there were Monsoon computer speakers that had planar highs, and crappy subs. Hooked up with a guy that did returns for them, or something like that, and he had a ton of the planars, so I bought what I could afford at the time. Only have eight total left now, but at 4"x8" they are substantial, and just one pair rounded out a pair of magnepan mbII just fine(along with a different pair of the same model peerless subs). So I ran the MV52 on them for several years until lightning struck, literally, and luckily just blew the mains fuse, but once I had it down, I mothballed it as I had also just come across a basket case MV50, and had thoughts of sending them back to CJ. That was quickly dashed by what they would charge, dont get me wrong its worth it, just not in my budget, plus I still had that hum in the PV1 to fix. I have modded a few tube amps, mostly old mono PA for low wattage home guitar amps, so I decided to dig into my CJ gear. First was the MV52, I was told there was a bias problem and indeed there was. I have received lots of info on another forum, so I have a good idea where to start. Waiting on parts right now, but also got parts for the PS in PV1, fairly thats the source of the hum. So I am going to recap it(you'll either love or hate the pic below, still makes me laugh). Finding replacements for the Sprague caps that are in there now was somewhat of a challenge. Especially since what is in there doesnt match what the parts list from CJ calls out. So I went with original values and came up with these.....

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yeah....gonna have to get creative to fit that big bad boy in the little PV1 chassis. Even though I plan to run it without the cover on, I would still like to be able to put it on if want, so really the only option is to lay it on its side. FWIW the big one is just a commercial motor run cap...I have read the pros and cons, and the price couldnt be beat for something "audiophile" grade, and plus this will never see the signal path, just fire up the HV side of the tubes. So we will see, unfortunately I didnt get everything I ordered, and the cap I was going to start with is of course the one that is missing from the order....soo...... I got bored and started to lay out the speakers. now this is a VERY crude layout, I have been doing most design in AutoCad, but there is something so sweet about actually starting to put lead to wood, so to speak. The front panel for the peerless mids will be the particle board pictured(recycled from some cheap cabinets that were used for storage by the previous owner of my house)...nothing special. The back and sides of the "mid portion will be some cherry wood veneer that I picked up for free at a garage sale(had to take all the rest of the cutoffs that her late husband left behind, think its good karma though, he was smart enough to save some nice stuff, plus she was a very nice lady...I also got some other cool stuff there like an unskinned RC airplane that has to be 50 years old, it will never fly, but looks neat hanging in my temporary workshop). Which leads to the next pic that I have included because I am just down right embarrassed of my basement workshop, its supposed to be finished living quarters, but mother nature had other ideas for the car port my house came with that I was going to enclose.

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Yeah, snow brought it most the way down, some cabinets and other stuff kept it up until I was able to get in there and salvage what I could. No cars or my poor boat were in there, somewhat thankfully....took a bath on the boat with no place to work on it. Glatron Carlson cv19 with an Olds455 and a jet pump....sigh.... Insurance gave me enough for me to build a nice big garage, but the city wouldnt let me put it back where the carport was, too close to the property line....so THAT is also on hold. Until then I have a very small outside storage and most of my tools in my basement. Hence these pics of the speaker layout. The planars will be "hinged" as they are very directional so I can adjust for different rooms if/when they get moved to a main listening area. I have also included a pic of a passive crossover that I salvaged from another pair of Infinity speakers similar to the Q series, the name escapes me at the moment but they ran emits and domes as well(but not the odd Watkins dual VC sub 2ohm one coil, 6ohm the other IIRC. So I will use those until I get the MV50 running and decide what to use on the bottom end. I know technically I am in a 4way system, but I may pull double duty with the amp for the mids to run the 4" coupler speakers if the bass speaker doesnt run high enough, included a pic of one of my choices, a reconed JBL 1000watt gtimk1(its actually a prosound speaker they used heavy cones and 4ohm VC for back in the 90's for high end SQ autosound. I have a pair of twelves, tens, eighteens, and 4 15's.....the 15's are brand spankin new....will be total over kill, but I have been dying to use them in something. We will see, I do have other projects to consider...any way....blabbering again....here are the pics....again, this is a very rough layout, and yes I know some of the lines are not straight....in fact some are freehand...lol enjoy.....oh, if you have any of these peerless mids(they all used to be closed back but I took off the cup for my own tuning)....I would be very interested in purchasing trading, sorry if I should post that somewhere else, just figured I would throw it out there......

ugh, message too long.....will do second post
Last edited by camusmuse on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
camusmuse
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by camusmuse »

Reconed JBL
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A very rough layout of the speakers, the wood behind the planers will be gone so the "backs" can "breathe"

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The (coupler) speakers, they will have their own air space from the dome mids

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Closer side shot of the drivers, I found a hole saw that fits the magnets perfect, just have to predrill for the leads. yep that close.

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...eventually more to come....
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by Ray »

Fantastic story! I owned a couple of the Monsoon computer setups for awhile, at one point built a "real sub" to go along with it. These were great speakers and the planar portion was wonderful. Looks like you've got a ton of work ahead, but that's the fun part. 'looking forward to the next chapter! Thanks!
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by admin »

Welcome camusmuse! I like your narrative style by the way. I think the ongoing speaker project looks awesome, your definitely going to have to keep us updated on the project as it goes along. I have done some minor mod work and such but I don't feel I'm in your league to build an entire speaker. Nonetheless, it's very cool.

I think it's great that you have acquired a lot of great equipment by being "thrifty." A lot of people I talk with say that they would never get into the "audiophile" thing because it's too expensive. I point out that it is expensive if you go straight to the audiophile shop and buy the latest gear. However, with a little time, dedication, and elbow grease you can buy used equipment in places like ebay, audiogon, craigslist,... for a small fraction of the retail price. I have bought nice gear for less than what walmart is selling a new piece of garbage for. I have purchased used on speakers, amps, preamps, receivers, cables, etc... Also, a little mod work on inexpensive items can often put them in the same performance category as much higher priced gear. I think this was especially true of my Jolida JD9 phono preamp. Pretty good out of the box, but with a few simples mods it really shines and competes with multi-thousand dollar units (IMHO).

Sorry to hear about that work shed coming down due to the snow. Thank god nobody was in it at the time!

That huge Sprague cap looks crazy. You might have to get creative if you plan on putting that into the PV1, although the PV1 does afford slightly more space than some of CJ's other units.

Well, welcome to the site, and good luck with your projects,... keep us informed of how they are going.
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Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
camusmuse
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by camusmuse »

Well after another lengthy narrative and pics, I hit submit, and it logs me out.....ugh...oh well....short version....

Fixed PV1 with replacing one tiny cap. Sounds great as expected....ugh, still dismayed about losing my post, the one time I dont save before posting. Bleh
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by admin »

We appreciate the short version as well! I know that the forum software will log you out if you take no action for an extended time. Is it possible that you were editing for over 15 minutes? Really ashame as I appreciate the detail of your first post above.

To be safe in the future. I would recommend saving the draft often, and before hitting any button on long post, just select all the text and hit "CTRL and C" to copy it to your PC's clipboard. That way if anything happens you can just paste it back real quick (CTRL and V).

Congrats on fixing the PV1. May I ask how you narrowed the problem down to one cap? I'm sure that kind of information would be useful to other members.

Once again, sorry about losing your post.
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Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by camusmuse »

Yeah, I usually do a save and even email to myself if it is a particularly long post and I am on an "unreliable computer"(not uncommon for some older ones of mine to have unscheduled shutdowns), just didnt seem like it had been that long(then again I type faster than I talk most the time...I sit at a computer all day long for work, and quick notes are key to what I do). Cest la vie... I am sure I will get over it soon enough and post something more detailed.

As for narrowing down to that cap, after looking at the schematics for the PS.... this particular cap, and a resistor(one the same leg) were set in the circuit path in what looked to me to be a type of filter, or cut(resistor across the lines and a cap in series..or vice versa, cant remember at the moment)...knowing what I know about passive crossovers helped alot. Plus the cap itself was of no special brand or high quality, at least from what I can tell. There is another ceramic cap(the one I am waiting for still) that I also had my eye on, and it still might get replaced. But if I do Im switching the screws that hold down the board to phillips, spent more time with those PITA straight head screws than anything....dont worry, will save the originals...will even save the original cap....it was only original once, and who knows some day I might retire this to a museum( I have lots of REALLY old antique radios....again lots of that story lost in post).

Dont feel bad, its not your fault I didnt save. Like I mentioned, I almost always do, just didnt this time...I do have a fairly good memory, sure it wont be exact but I will try to hit the highlights beyond the "quick fix" mentioned above. Thanks again for the post compliments....I do tend to get a bit verbose though, even for my own tastes....my wife tells me I should be a writer(among other things....lol). Watched a documentary on Charles Bukowski this morning that does have me a bit inspired...."evil grin" better yet...... :twisted:
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by admin »

Sounds interesting. Must be nice to have a collection of older electronics components. I don't think there is anything wrong with older things, heck, some of the older tubes are highly valued. Your going to have to give us your impression on the sound once everything is complete!

If there are further problems with posting or errors, please let me know. I have had a few instances where my post ended up as an error page, but I also had this on other sites. I think my Internet connection sometimes is not the greatest. My main computer is about 40 feet from my wireless router (and on a different floor). Well, save often, we don't want to lose any of your posts (regardless of length)!
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Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
camusmuse
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by camusmuse »

time for the mv-50 have the caps suggested for the bias circuit...and just placed an order for the tube sockets...that site sure is proud of the input stage pins, went cheap with non pin and will modify as necessary. I make one third of what I used to....two masters degrees in business, and all I can land is a crappy call center job....it will be the death of me..... ramble on nate..... so....

sorry work has kept me busy during week....bull something or other corporate politics....i have medical conditions that work doesnt care about, so I have to continue on, or lose everything(house and a mountain of student loans that are worthless apparently)......gotta love corporate america, and the lies from management....cest la vie. someday i will prevail, or perish trying.....sarcoidisis is a ...well I dont want to be profane....

will pursue my passions as "permitted".....just another brick in the wall...lol....literally.....i digress again....



updates will come as time and health permit.
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

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Well...lemme give this another shot. Here a pic of the completed repair, yeah still dusty as all get out....but will clean very well before I put it to semi-permanent use. (Hey, that original CJ dust in there...its gotta be worth something....lol). Sorry for the lousy pic, didnt think it was this blurry, but you can see the shiny new metal cap that replaces the stock one. Still cant believe how dead silent it is now. Just love that thing...would like new tubes, but will wait for those to start to go.

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And of course a pic with that purdy red led in the front, love the symmetry of the front panel, now i just gotta straighten out the rear. The stock RCA connectors leave alot to be desired....still pondering what to do.....

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After seeing some of the system pics I am hesitant to post this one, but these are my very custom maggie stands and monsoon "stabilizers" for my pool table room. yes they are wedged between the speaker and the ceiling. Not ideal, but it does work, and sound alright. Used this system(sony str700es ) to run to PV1 to with a Sony ES CD source to the CJ. The only noise came from the Sony....(it has been a very reliable workhorse though). As for this system, it is all temporary, the room will eventually be "period" to match the pool table (old Brunswick circa 1920). I do have whats left of my antique radio collection that will stay there, but I think the newest piece might be from the 1940's. Had to sell alot of them a while back to pay bills....doncha just hate corporate America sometimes....lol. Anyay, I will have a decent audio system in there, just hidden behind two more mirrors like the one in the corner. With stealth speakers. I have a terabyte drive that I save all my CDs to in a lossless format, every room in the house with a computer has access....very convenient. Now no laughing....lol...

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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

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After a quick look, you cant see the custom stands.....they are old broken chairs....so terrible....lol....
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by admin »

The PV1 looks great, a little restoration work and no problems! Keep us informed on how things are progressing. You seem to have a ton of equipment, enough to fill quite a few listening rooms.

Are you running those planar speakers so close to the wall? I find that they really need a lot of room to come alive. I keep my martin logan's about 5 feet off the back wall, I find that if they're close to walls the sound really suffers. Very finicky speakers.
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Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
camusmuse
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Re: PV1 MV50 MV52

Post by camusmuse »

Yeah, those were put there literally just to have sound and to have a place so they wouldnt get damaged. They were supposed to be temporary, and still really are, but that project is way down the list. I originally had them in a setup that was between rooms, about 9 feet from the back wall, so it was really an open air setup. gave great imaging, not much information from the rear of the speaker made it to the listening position though.

I did dig into the mv50, replaced all the tube power sockets and a few caps. Sadly the problem persists, if not worse...so I am going to back up some and start at the beginning of the circuit(s). I was hoping I would get lucky like I did on the PV1..no such luck. But at least the amp will get the attention it needs. It has had some real nasty work done to it before it appears. So basically it looks like I may be building it from the ground up. But one stage at a time......will keep posted
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