Naim audio

Amps, preamps, speakers, cables, and any other Non-CJ products.
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miatadan
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Naim audio

Post by miatadan »

Anyone here besides me using Naim audio products? Always felt Naim cd players had analog sound and least digital sounding. Same for their Dac and network players
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Re: Naim audio

Post by sootshe »

Had a great Naim CD player, it was really natural sounding & smooth, can’t remember what model it was.
When I changed to a file based system I got a Naim DAC & it also is extremely natural sounding & not digital at all, still using it. I tried a few of their amps & I thought they were lifeless & dull sounding.
They do make some great products, but their electronics have a very particular flavour.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by joeinid »

I had a Naim Supernait2 many years ago. I loved it. Naim sounds full and meaty with great toe tapping rhythm. Tubes still beat even the best solid state but Naim is wonderful. I’ve not heard their CD players but their reputation is stellar.

Wow, didn’t realize the original post is ancient. :o
drinkwine
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Re: Naim audio

Post by drinkwine »

I'll add to this old post. I had a Naim 3.5 and now I have the CDX2, which I love. Detailed and very musical. Not fatiguing.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Yes, definitely second that.

Infact our main CJ importer in Melbourne also carries Naim gear and the full range of speakers as well, except the Naim Statement amplifiers (price tag $200 grand), which I've heard driving top of the line Audio Analysis ribbons.

I must say when matched properly, the Naim gear can sound extremely natural but if mis-matched it can sound dull and thin... as some have mentioned.

Their speakers are pretty good too but were quite high considering the vast competition out there. I guess when we have to convert from Pounds to Aussie $$ it gets pretty expensive when it arrives here, that's usually the case anyway.

A carefully matched Naim setup can be very satisfying, putting together that sort of system takes time. Very interesting you raised Naim, and each time I visit my good mates demo rooms, and there's Naim gear playing, I sit there and listen for a while.
Good stuff mate!

Cheers, RJ
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Re: Naim audio

Post by drinkwine »

Yes, the synergies within Naim (and with Linn) are real. Frankly, I don't just have the equipment above. My Naim SBL speakers have found a new life with a WilsonBenesh CarbonOne fitted onto my Naim Aro arm, which is on an LP12, with the Naim Prefix pre-phono, and the Armageddon P/S. This is joined by the NAC82 pre, a NAP250 power amp, the aforementioned CDX2 plus XPS (and 2 Hi-Caps). Detailed, precise, very musical, engaging, and not fatiguing, as I said. I also run the TT and the CDX2 through my CJ Premier 12s and 14, which usually are connected to Devore Super 8s. Great fun. You never know which recording will sound better (and sometimes it is better, not just different) with either system.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by Automaticftp »

As someone who has been up and down the Naim ladder, and who worked in a shop that carried Naim, Linn, ProAc, Vandersteen, and later c-j, I feel reasonably qualified to comment.

Naim has a definite house sound, and for those who like it that presentation can be hard to beat. And Naim's service over the years is hard to fault. However: In terms of value, at least in the US, it's abysmal when priced new. And the Naim forum is, shall we say, rather tamped down by the admins, and is an echo chamber that would make the 45th president proud. Anyone who dares to defy the Naim orthodoxy is accused of either not having set it up correctly or not investing sufficiently - "oh, you need a power supply to really hear what the NDX2 can do." The NDX2 in the US sells for a cool $7690, and the power supply, the XPS, is another $6490.

I had to laugh out loud when I wrote that an Exposure system sounded better to me than a Naim stack that cost almost three times as much and was accused of "not having set it up correctly." Having been taught by two of the best Naim setup people in the US, I got a great laugh out of it. And then was told a 250 amp wasn't well matched to the 202/NAPSC/Hicap I was using it with. Again, a great laugh. And the other is how neurotic the gear can be - if everything isn't perfect, it sounds pretty average, though the "black" Naim is somewhat better in that respect than the "olive" series.

All that said, one of the very best systems I've ever heard was a set of active Naim DBLs with 6 NAP-135 power amps. That was stunning, and the only system I've heard that was obviously better was a set of Wilson WAMMs (not the current ones) with a stack of Levinson gear driving it. And if anyone besides @drinkwine is familiar with SBLs, one of the best sounds I've heard from them was when driven by a Naim CDS, c-j PV12, and c-j Premier 11. Anyone who doesn't believe SBLs can image or recreate a soundstage should listen to them with the above system (or similar).

I still use a Naim nDAC with a Teddy Pardo TXPS; the combination is sublime (the mere mention of a Pardo power supply for Naim is strictly prohibited on the Naim forum) and has seen off a LOT of other DACs. And the build quality and resale value of Naim is solid (as is service, as mentioned above).

But there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and Naim provides one of them.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Good stuff Auto, thanks for sharing.

Always an advantage when working with and dealing in hi-fi. You get to put together a vast array of systems that all sound different, yet delivers various results across a wide customer base. It's also one of the best ways to learn and pick up all the flaws inherent to particular gear, that was once thought highly of or should I say "well reviewed." That's why most reviews end up being a laugh or questioned, simply because they only reviewed that one component not the entire system, room, accessories etc., the variables are far too many, yet they're highly reviewed.

My last experience with Naim gear was totally awe-inspiring, infact to the point where I nearly paid a deposit but will-power and sanity held me back. It was the Naim Statement power amplifiers driving a pair of Audio Analysis ribbons Omega's. I also heard the Statements driving the smaller AA Omicron's, and both of these systems were superb! Although the AA ribbons were fairly affordable the Naim Statements were in a slightly different league... $AUD 220grand! So I thought to myself, whether I should really indulge in this category then agsin there's my favourite SS of all time, which are the Relentless monoblocks 200grand a pair... and so I just passed on the thought, knowing that my inner passion is always tubes.

Plus it's a sheer crime to spend that much on amplifiers, and how long would that last until something else comes along and makes another statement. So my good senses took over and the wifey slapped me silly into sanity... of course she did!

This happened around 2016, when I was on the quest for my ultimate speakers, moving away from my previous Quad ESL's looking for something truly special even if it meant other types of panels, horns, dynamic driver types, hybrids etc. The Statements arrived in Melbourne around that time and were featured at the Hi-Fi show driving big Focal's. The Statements then made its way around all the prime dealerships and that's where I arranged for a private demo. At least I got to hear what $220grand of amplification can do. Whether it was worth it or not I'm not too sure but boy did they sound spectacular!

BTW, have you heard the Statements by any chance, if so what do you think? What were the speakers used during the demo if you can refer?
I must say, very interesting the way they're built and designed, obviously no compromises whatsoever.

Cheers to the Statements!
Best, RJ
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Re: Naim audio

Post by AnotherJohnson »

NAIM were joined at the hip with Tiefenbruns for years. The attitude described by Auto is no surprise. Once Tiefenbruns decided they could make their own electronics, NAIM was thrown under the bus. But attitudes toward customers were already set.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by AnotherJohnson »

I have Linn in spite of Tiefenbruns. In my opinion a properly set up LP12 is as good as it can get. I abandoned them for a while, but came back after trying to give them up.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Yes AJ, I here ya mate.

Can certainly relate to that... on more than one occasion but I won't mention names/ brands, not worth it and no point as I've moved on... stuck to a few as well.

It certainly looks like you're still quite upset about the whole thing, and I definitely don't blame you one bit, it's a fair point.
At the end of the day, I learned that there's really no point juggling where things went wrong and how they (the other party) simply can't understand your point. It's very frustrating, discouraging and a "let down feeling." My former Japanese CEO once told me, that whatever you do in life, go the extra mile to help someone, stay back at work till late to please the customers or boss, do whatever it takes to get the family ahead, and the list goes on... there's just one thing that's very profound and stands out. That's standing in front of the mirror and asking yourself "did I do my best?" If so, simply sit back and enjoy life. If not, then you better get to it!

I'll never forget those words and he was the best boss I ever had amongst the 19 different jobs I've had reporting to absolute donkey Kongs!

I know you're true to yourself and you love the Linn gear, that's all that really matters.
Cheers mate, enjoy those very fine tunes.
RJ
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Re: Naim audio

Post by Automaticftp »

@rj - I've heard the Statements a few times, with enormous and hideous Focal speakers, a pair of Wilsons (the large single tower per channel - not the current flagship; can't be bothered to remember the name), and a pair of the big Vandersteens. All sounded great, as you'd expect, and the systems probably all were close to the limit of what can be reproduced. Ironically, it seems that the closer hifi gets, the farther away it is from putting a string quartet or rock band (let alone a full orchestra) in a room. Probably the best preamp/amp I've heard (apologies to both all at c-j and to Tony Brady and team at Exposure!), but they (and the other amps in the price range I've heard) seem to have hit the flattened part of the upward curve in sound quality (if that makes sense). And at $270k USD for the pre and two monos, they're certainly not affordable for most. Amazing to listen to, though!

Re Linn and Naim - ironic that now Naim does more business than Linn. I think Ivor was right at the time - most sources back then were, shall we say, not very good, and the LP12 was one of the earliest turntables to not only be engineered well (again, for the time) but also machined extremely well and with good quality control. Yes, a PITA to set up originally, but having been taught at the Linn factory (amazing place) and by one of the setup gurus in the US, the newer ones (from the Nirvana kit onwards) are straightforward. I also think the source first mantra got taken to absurd extremes, and that it's not as universal today as it was in the 70s and 80s, given the digital revolution and the lack of correlation between cost and quality.

I think that Naim, somewhat after Julian died, and particularly after Paul Stephenson was forced out in 2015, has gone after profit more than it has previously. Nothing wrong with that - their service remains top notch, and Naim gear generally holds strong resale value, but I think it has painted Naim into a bit of a corner. The "Classic" line is stagnant and overpriced (IMO) in the US, and the 500 series the same, save the ND555 replacing the NDS (network players, and awesome sounding ones to boot). In many respects, Naim has preceded Apple down that road, at least on the Mac side, which people have complained has been stagnant for years (though the introduction of Apple Silicon powered Macs may shake that up!).

Anyway, sorry for the length - and if it comes across as a bit of a diatribe. As I said, Naim offers a particular take on how to skin a cat - and there are those who love it.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Yes! Those Statements sure make a statement!
However, at over 200grand... forget it! There are far more important things in life than that, plus you can still enjoy great music on an affordable level, one carefully selected and put together over the years. The enjoyment is appreciating the system as a whole, what you can afford in your own means and have truly achieved. Only then can you fully understand the real value put together and learn to appreciate it even more! Look after it well and most importantly, enjoy those fine tunes!

That's all that matters.
Cheers, RJ
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Re: Naim audio

Post by AnotherJohnson »

I am not bitter about Linn. It’s just stuff.

I do like their turntables ... Their corporate philosophy, not so much.

I love Kyocera’s corporate motto. A friend of mine who was a VP there 25 years ago introduced me to it.

Corporate Philosophy
Corporate Motto: "Respect the Divine and Love People"
Preserve the spirit to work fairly and honorably, respecting people, our work, our company and our global community.
It’s just stuff. I like mine. I hope you like yours. I probably like yours too.
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Re: Naim audio

Post by Automaticftp »

Love Kyocera's motto! Wish they still did hifi.
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