Seeking amplifier recommendations

From tubes to solid state.
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george_k
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Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by george_k »

Hello,

Recently purchase my first CJ component: a PV-15 pre.

I've been looking at the MV60SE, the Classic 60 (non-SE) and the MF2250 and MF2275 (non-SE).

I've heard the Classic 60 in person and liked what I heard. I noticed it lacked low frequency slam but made up for it massively in the mid-range frequencies.

I've never heard the solid state Conrad products nor the MV60SE which uses different output tubes. Can anybody provide a bit of perspective regarding the differences between these products or recommend an alternative.
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Re: Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by admin »

I'll just chime in as I do use a solid state CJ amp (Evolution 2000). However, it does have a tube input stage so I do get some of that "warmth." I think when deciding on going with a tube amp vs solid state there are two big questions you have to ask yourself. First, how much power do you need. I use some very inefficient magnepan 20.1's which do really need quite a bit of power if you want to play them on the louder side of things. However, if you have efficient speakers, this does not become an issue. The 2nd question is whether you like "the tube sound?" This is something only the listener can answer. I can personally say that I do. I try to have as many tube components in my system as possible (phono preamp, preamp, dac, and amp (kind of)).

As long as you don't need massive power I find it hard to believe that you would go "wrong" with any of the options you just listed. I think it will come down to price and personal preference.

The other benefit of a tube design is that you can change the sound by using different tubes. With solid state amps you are pretty much stuck with what you got.

If you are interested in solid state amps you may want to look at McCormack which is the solid state brand of CJ.
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Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
george_k
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Re: Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by george_k »

Hi my speakers are an easy load and 50-60 watts will more than adequately drive them. I currently use a 60 watt solid state integrated.

What I'd like to know are things like how a 6550 tube will sound compared to a EL34 on a Conrad amplifier and how their pure play solid state designs compare to their tubes.

The reason for asking is the lack of ability to demo locally so I'll be buying based on comparing opinion to my own preferences
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Re: Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Hey mate, these are my comparisons and I have owned both the mv60se and classic60se including a good range of cj's solid state power amps.
1. The classic60SE has plenty of bass slam. Tubes used are the kt120 and throws a superb 3d soundstage only as good as your speakers and preamp being upto the task.
2. The classic60 is not a bass heavy amp but capable of good decent bass with ample detail in the mid range as you would've experienced. It is extremely well balanced and replaced the mv60 series including the premier11 and mv 55 series. The classic60 SE version surpasses all of these amps in terms of high-end resolution, spatial cues, soundstage depth and a superb balance in overall sound. It will reproduce music the way it was recorded, therefore it won't deliver artificial bass that most other ss amps are known for....
3. The mv60SE is one classic amplifier. It can take both types of tubes kt120 & 6550. The difference is quite noticeable. The 6550 being around for many decades, reliable and good value. The kt120 came along and took the performance of the 6550 to another level. It is far more robust, sounds fuller and delivers a tight fisted bass only found on high quality ss designs.
4. The EL34'S are triodes, they can also be configured to ultra - linear switchable on certain amps not the cj though. The EL 34 has probably been around forever, known for its very high musicality, palpable midrange and smooth airy highs, which are the hall marks of cj.
The EL 34 won't do bass compared to the 6550 which is a power tetrode. These are power beam tetrodes and like the kt120's they carry far more current and plate voltage compared to the EL34'S.

As for ss designs, I can't comment much because I am a tube lover. Cj's ss amps are good as well as a host of others like Bryston, krell, pass labs, mcintosh and so on...
But when it comes to tubes, cj is special.

As far as the cj evolution 2000 series amps are concerned, this is a radical design. Capable of driving virtually anything, extremely powerful and when partnered with a high quality preamp, that's about the best pre-power match you will ever find. The new et250s doesn't even come close, the premier350 was it's successor but no longer in production.

Since you have a pv 15,I would try out the mv60se with kt120 tubes, if you can afford higher, I would suggest the classic60SE. To me none of the new ss gear that cj currently makes can compare to their previous designs. Their main focus is on tubes. They offer the mccormack line as their new ss, which is quite good.
The decision is yours. Cheers, RJ
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Re: Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by antaresbluespirit »

Hello

I own a MV 60SEfor years linked with a PV8 (following mv55) and the results provide the balance between the old CJ sound and the more recent one,not so neutral ,good balanced soundstage keeping the ryhtm sense and sound "matter" that is missing with most current product..

A personal point of view but as jazz singer and music lover .

I hope to get the opportunity of hearing the classic 60 Se linked wit hthe fameous PV9a to check if they are complementary....

i also have experienced a CJ solid state many month like MF2250 in couple with PV10a and PV8, the results were excellent but not very known as alternative without spending a lot of money

This range of solid state amp have been developped prior MAC Cormak Acquisition by CJ and this amp were considered as equal in sound quality and I fully agreed with this opinion

they stopped their CJ range for consistant marketing decision since CJ brand image is "tube" Mac Cormak brand image is "solid state"as well..

Raymond
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Re: Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Hey Raymond, nice to know that you have a mv60se. Are you using the KT120 or the 6550's for output tubes?

Between the classic60se and the mv60se on kt120's, the overall sound (finesse, soundstage depth and resolution) is just slightly more upfront on the classic60se. Both amplifiers are very good and I could happily live with either. I really enjoyed the mv60se with kt120 tubes, it gave the amp a major improvement in overall sound.

I wouldn't say that the classic60se is a huge step in improving the overall sound, unlike compared to the Art amplifiers. The classic60SE does give you that extra edge of quality but I can confidently claim the mv60se is equally a fine amplifier with the kt120's.
I know these amps extremely well because I currently have the classic60se, which like the premier11A was one of my favorite amps.

In terms of partnering with cj preamps, any cj preamp will be fine with these tube amplifiers. They all have special sonic attributes when partnered with high quality preamps such as the premier pres or Act2 and above. You would have to try them out. And my word of advice is to go for the best preamp you can afford. Top of the line cj preamps are superb and they won't let you down.
Have a good one. Cheers RJ
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Re: Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by antaresbluespirit »

Hey RJ,

Great to hear your comments about CJ in général,the company has kept the same philosophy for the begining of the adventure and their fans as music lover are never desappointed..

So ,my MV60SE is fitted with svetlana 6550 winged C,and I fully agree with you,a system upgrade come from the preamp quality that represents the most sensitive component with the source itself..

The hifi introduce a "subjective"attitude depending of our personal culture and more you are involved by the "live reproduction" and some time by practising the music itself, more you can understand your own expectations...

Every monday evening ,during 2 hours ,I team up with a vocal group of 8 singers and a choir master.(scat ,jazz ) sometime musicians join us.

The main difficulties for a choir is to sing "together" what ever your individual talent is,in respecting the rythm and set up your own voice level (baryton,tenor ,alto or soprano)keeping away from any influence of the other singers to highlight an overall harmony as a result!

The choir works well when we play togther at the right level and the same rythm

In hifi the comparison may be similar, some electronic system are anoying despite keen definition because the music live is missing...

The value of CJ components what ever their technical design are ,they have "the sense of rythm and respect the music timbre, you forget electronic presence...

Probably the people who have created the company are really music lover and they cannot accept any compromise definitly.......

Regards

Raymond
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Re: Seeking amplifier recommendations

Post by Big Dog RJ »

Hey mate, ok looks like your mv60se had the exact same tubes that I had, sed 6550c, these are actually pretty good tubes. Nice full sound, well balanced, great depth, fairly quick transients, smooth highs a well balanced bass and very relaxing midrange. Replace these with the kt120's from Tungsol and it will take just what I stated above to another level!

The kt120 is a direct replacement to the 6550 tube. Just remember, if you are planning to try these out, before replacing, turn down the bias on each tube and shut down the amp. Wait for a few minutes for the tubes to cool off before replacing. Place in the kt120's, switch the amplifier back on, wait for 2-3 mins, turn the bias back up and adjust as LED just goes off. Wait for another 20 mins do one more final bias adjust so that the leds are finely balanced or as close as you can get. Choose your favorite track and get ready for a brand new sound that you won't believe is coming out of your mv60se. You might actually think you've bought a brand new amplifier.

Have a good one, and enjoy. You won't be disappointed with the kt120's. Cheers, RJ
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