Looking for a new tube amp

[AudioDon]

I'm new to the forum, and want to ask for a recommendation for a new tube amp. I stumbled across this site when I was searching for a Premier 11a for sale. I'm in the market for a new amp, as I'm still chasing that "sound". It all started out about 10 years ago with a pair of Totem Forest speakers, and I'm still looking. What I didn't know at the time was that those speakers were driven by an amp and front end that cost more than the down payment on my house.

My system is a
CJ Premier 14 preamp
Mf2200 amp
Arcam CD-92
Rega P3 TT with an aging Benz Micro cartridge.

It seems like the MF2200 is the weak link in the chain right now (other than the aging cartridge). I enjoy listening to the MF2200, but it leaves me wanting more. It doesn't produce much of a soundstage, it doesn't have that lush tube sound, but doesn't have much impact on the bottom end either. I auditioned an MV45, and didn't feel like it had enough power to really open up the system. The Premier 11a seems to be a a good price point, although I read a shootout comparing it to the MV60, and the author liked the MV60 better. I'd love to find a pair of Premier 8's, but I still have a kid in college, and so that's out of the question. I saw that pstrisik had recently sold a pair of LP125's, and his comment was that he was enjoying listening to the 11a. I don't understand why someone would step down from the monoblocks to an older design, other than financially. $4k for the LP125's would have left me scrambling to pay the mortgage for a number of months, but would have been great.

I'm very interested in hearing any thoughts on what would work well with the Pr.14 What about bi-amping the system? I've thought about upgrading the MF2200, and using it for the bottom end?

Thanks,
Don

[pstrisik]

Hi Don,

I think you'll get much more input out here than private. Plus now you have one post! Welcome to the forum!

I've not listened to the MV60. The Pr11 came out in the mid 1990's. The MV60 was the model that logically replaced it, I think in the early 2000's. It is 60wpc vs. 70wpc in the 11, though I've come to believe that anything over 30wpc in a quality tube amp is ample. I ran my 87db AR2ax' with a 10wpc SET (tetrode) amp with decent results. If I was going to keep that up, 20wpc would have been plenty. Some even say that higher power begins to lose the sweetness in sound. So I've stopped lusting after Pr12's, not to even mention Pr8's! But, if I were to go after CJ monos, it would be the 12's.

If looks are important to you, they are certainly very different. I love the 11 style with gold anodized face plate and top plate. It is stunning run without the cage with the tubes laid out like in a show case. The MV60, on the other hand, doesn't seem to work with the cage off given that awkward "fin". It's pretty enough with the cage on if you are likely to display it that way. Of course, this is to my eyes.

It is odd to me that they issued the 11 with 6550 power tubes and came out with the MV60 to replace it with EL34 tubes since there is notable difference between them. I've not yet run EL34s. I plan to in my SET amp comparing to the KT-150s in there now. Reputation is that the EL34 has more sweetness in the midrange and the 6550 more in the frequency extensions. Some reviews of the MV60 say that little is lost with the EL34 when comparing the two though.

Now, to make things more complicated, when the KT120 came out, CJ evaluated and decided to issue their amps with the 120 instead of the 6550. In both the 11A and the LP125Ms, I was able to compare "new issue" 6550s and KT120s. I found the Kt120s stronger in microdynamics and with more extension on both ends. The only reason I would run 6550s at this point is to compensate for an otherwise bright system and probably only if I were running subs to make up for the low end (which I do regardless, except with vinyl).

So, you might now compare the MV60, with EL34, to Pr11A with KT120. Reviews more than a few years would have been looking at 6550s only as the KT120 first came out about two years ago.

Dizzy yet? You can also find the MV60SE or upgrade one to the SE model, which does run 6550 (and, I assume KT120).

Whew! Always difficult without evaluating several options.

Regarding the LP125Ms.... I sold them for a few reasons. 1) I was starting to experiment with single ended design. If I was going to have two amps, the Pr11A was much more parsimonious with space than the monos. 2) I really like the look of the 11A more than the 125s. The 125s have a black top plate instead of gold and encased the transformers in a single black sheet metal box where they are displayed openly and separately on the 11. To me, the 11 is just more classic and timeless. I feel more attachment and affection for it than I did the 125s. 3) The 125's are more modern in sound. A bit less warm though more transparent with greater extension, at least in the top end. Many prefer this. I prefer the more classic warmer sound.

Hopefully there is information here that is meaningful to you to help point in one direction or the other. Never an easy choice! But I'm sure you would find substantial improvement from the 2200 with either.

By the way, there is an 11A for sale now on audiogon for $1995. It looks to be in great shape. There were two that went on eBay auctions for about $1800 recently. Someone told me that blue book is about $1700.

[pstrisik]

Looks like that 11A on eBay sold. You by chance, Don? If not, there will be another.

[AudioDon]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your response. You definitely got my head spinning with all of the information. I would really like to hear the differences in output tubes, as well as different designs. Heck, I'd like to get my living room remodel finished so I get back to listening to music.

It wasn't me who bought that one. I saw the price and kinda scoffed at $1995. The seem to sell quite frequently in the $1600 range, so in the meantime I'll just wait. I saw a MV75a for sale on USaudiomart, and it was a good stater price, but once you did the work it needed and got new tubes, it's almost the price of an Pr.11.

For now, I'm going to look at maybe doing some Cap replacement in the 2200.

Thanks,
Don

[AudioDon]

Hi Peter and all,
I'm happy to report that I picked up a Premier 11a this past week, and really enjoying it. I got it for $1750 shipped, and it's got a relatively new set of Svetlana 6550's. I also found a set of TungSol KT120's for $110 shipped and I'm looking forward to some tube rolling.

Peter I read in a post on another forum where you bi-amped your Premier11 with a MF2250. How did that turn out? Did you end up using the device you bought to balance them?

Thanks,
Don

[Big Dog RJ]

Great purchase mate- that's a winner indeed!

The Premier 11 is one "very fine" amplifier made by c-j. So many fantastic reviews about it, Thomas J Norton's personal reference amplifier for many years, and one that I owned as well, and truly enjoyed the most. I was using the Premier 11A with a PFR preamp for quite a while before venturing back to tube preamps. Funny thing, I had the MF2300 power amp as well, with the PFR, that was quite a combination. However, as soon as the Premier 11A arrived, the MF2300 was gone! That 70 watts of pure musical tube magic was something really special, and it drove my big maggies- MG3.5/R effortlessly.

Although, there were various successors, such as the MV60/SE, LP66S, LP70, and now the Classic Sixty/SE versions, which all sound somewhat different, with a whole lot of attributes on each amp. Overall, the premier 11A is certainly a true classic. Not only does it look awesome, it just sounds right!
I had to eventually sell mine off when I migrated to Australia, and I still regret selling it, although I am absolutely enjoying the Classic Sixty SE which looks butt ugly, I can only hope the second owner appreciates his premier 11A.

With your Premier 14 and Premier 11A, that is one combination you really don't need to change, unless you were insane! I strongly feel you've achieved that "sound" you were looking for. Sit back, pour that scotch, light that cigar and enjoy the music!
Cheers mate, RJ