S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

From tubes to solid state.
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AudioDIY
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S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by AudioDIY »

Lately, I am interested in Single Ended Triode (SET) power amplifier and have done some research about it. To my surprise that given their low output (3-18 Watt) and extremely high price (6,000-200,000 USD), people seems to like it a lot and rave about their sonic capability.

My question is ... Any CJ owners have heard a 300B / 211 SET amp in person and how does it compare to CJ power amp and does it warrant the extremely high price tag?

Thanks
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pstrisik
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by pstrisik »

Can't say for sure. People do swear by them though they also have a reputation for being more particular about system setup. Need for higher efficiency speakers the biggest requirement.

I have on order a Single Ended amp designed by Dennis Had of Cary fame. He is using a pair of KT150's power tubes (brand new TungSol tube design) for 12wpc. These are hand made for $1600. He was willing to let me specify chassis color as well (Jaguar Carnival Red for me!). He's signing them as the cherry on top.

He sells through ebay primarily right now. None currently listed, but you can contact him through the ebay message system. His username is radioman731. You can also see his amps if you filter the search to show items that were sold.

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firebottle (smaller).jpg
firebottle (smaller).jpg (58.92 KiB) Viewed 5076 times
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by admin »

Those tubes look ridiculously crazy (in a good way). Just a beautiful tube amp. The low wpc don't make them practical for me as driving my Magnepan 20.1's require high power, but nonetheless, if I had a pair of high efficiency speakers I could definitely see myself checking these out.
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by joeinid »

Thanks for the info Peter. I'll have to check this out.
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pstrisik
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by pstrisik »

Yeah, those tubes I've nick named The Buck Rodgers Tube!

Since there is interest, here is text from his last listing:
The new TungSol KT-150 tube must have been engineered designed and manufactured for SE class A audio amplifier service. I have combined a 400% duty cycle power transformer, larger output transformers and higher voltage regulated screen grid power supply in this new "Fire-Bottle" KT-150. If you have ever wondered about this single-ended vacuum tube audio craze ..... now is the time for an Inspire "Fire-Bottle" in your home listening room. No matter the choice of music you enjoy or the playback equipment you use, this new "FIRE-BOTTLE" will reward the listener with the emotional impact and realism of the original score. Just about any cone type loudspeaker is a match for the Inspire KT-150. I almost want to put a set of Lake Pipes on this machine. On a technical basis this Inspire music machine has a number of features listed below:

* Fully regulated low impedance tube screen grid B+ power supply
* Fully regulated low impedance input tube driver, 6H30 dual triode B+ plate power supply
* Large oil filed regulated power supply section filter cap
* Filter choke Pi-Network power supply
* Precision non-inductive metal film 3 watt resistors
* Paper and oil filed, epoxy encapsulated, coupling and by-pass capacitors
* Gold plated copper output speaker posts
* EE Teflon silver stranded 19 strand hook up wiring
* Pure 99.9% Silver Teflon Insulated internal coax interconnect
* Custom design 15 watt SE air gapped output transformers with separate feed-back winding, left and right channel matched pair
* 400 % duty cycle CCS power transformer designed for 120/240 VAC 50/60 Hz primary
* Separate center tapped filament transformer for the 5AR4 rectifier tube
* .080 (12 ga) aluminum chassis and matching bottom plate with large soft rubber shock mount feet
* 12 watts output with the KT-150, KT-88 or KT-120 output tubes and 5AR4 rectifier tube
******** 10 watts output into 2 ohm loads with KT150 output tube with 5AR4/GZ34 rectifier ********* This is a serious SE amplifier!!
* Duty cycle of the amplifier is 24/7 in full operate conditions
* Harley Davidson black powder coat high gloss finish with Burled Walnut front panel (amazing like a glass mirror)

I guess you can tell I am excited with the new high power KT150 "FIRE-BOTTLE" stereo amplifier offering. I hand build each amplifier from the raw metal and basket of parts. I consider this my form of musical and electronic art. Each amp is a new baby to me and I listen to each amplifier in both the shop listening room and my home listening room. This is a passion I have held for over 55 years now ever since I built my first single-ended 6V6G hi-fi amplifier for the 7 th grade science fair. I took home the blue ribbon and I have been hooked ever since. I never dreamed that retirement was going to be so much fun!!!!!!! Love it!!!!!
Dennis is confident it will drive my 87db sensitive, 8 ohm, AR2ax speakers. I'm skeptical, but I plan to have fun exploring the SE world. If not enough power for the ARs, I will build or buy a high efficiency, single driver set of speakers to really see what this is about!

I don't understand the electrical theory, but single ended designs don't split the signal and reunite it again like push-pull designs do, so the signal stays purer, more unadulterated. Similarly with single driver speakers, no crossovers to affect the signal.
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by camusmuse »

pstrisik wrote:Can't say for sure. People do swear by them though they also have a reputation for being more particular about system setup. Need for higher efficiency speakers the biggest requirement.

I have on order a Single Ended amp designed by Dennis Had of Cary fame. He is using a pair of KT150's power tubes (brand new TungSol tube design) for 12wpc. These are hand made for $1600. He was willing to let me specify chassis color as well (Jaguar Carnival Red for me!). He's signing them as the cherry on top.

He sells through ebay primarily right now. None currently listed, but you can contact him through the ebay message system. His username is radioman731. You can also see his amps if you filter the search to show items that were sold.

firebottle (smaller).jpg
There are my new sexy tubes again.....thanks for the reference.

As for the original post, SET work with very low wattage. However, many people believe that regardless the amplifier, "the first watt" is the most important. That is what A/B amps have their ratings...they will stay in class A until you "ask too much" and lose control of the volume knob. So yes, high db/w is good for low wattage amps, even if they arent tube....IMO
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by Good Dog Jocko »

I don't see David Berning going back to the drawing board anytime soon because of this. Interesting amp, but it is NOT a game changer such as those David Berning has introduced.
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by pstrisik »

Good Dog Jocko wrote:I don't see David Berning going back to the drawing board anytime soon because of this. Interesting amp, but it is NOT a game changer such as those David Berning has introduced.
non sequitur
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
[/color]
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by jeffreybehr »

I've loved the sounds of SET poweramps ever since I bought a pair of Antique Sound Lab Explorer 805 50-Watt SET monoamps after reading Art Dudley's review of them in 'Stereophile'. He too owned Quad 989 e-stats and found the 805s' power level adequate.
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Subsequently improved parts in them substantially but tired of the Quads' slightly excessive treble energy and sold Quads and 805s.

After building big, ugly, open-baffle line-arrays that were quite sensitive at somewhere around 100dB...
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...I drove them with Roger Modjeski's EM7 series of SET poweramps. Here are 2 10-Watt versions (driving the MR) flanking a 5WPC version driving the treble.
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This spring (it comes early in the Arizona desert) I decided to upgrade my speakers and poweramps, and after deciding against super-hi-quality, hi-power tubed amps such as c-j's ARTs, Ayon's 4-pairs-of-KT-120s monoamps, and one other I can't remember, I decided to try WAVAC 805-based SET monoamps, the 55-Watt MD-805ms.
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They didn't sound nearly as good driving the V-steen 5As as I had hoped, so I decided to go lower in power and higher in sensitivity. Bought a pair of Coincident Frankenstein IIs...
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http://www.coincidentspeaker.com/mpsip_amps.html

These are 300B-based 8-Watt monoamps that drove the 5As surprisingly well, until the 97dB-sensitive Serenity Super-7s...
http://serenityacoustics.com/products/thesuper7.html
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...arrived Saturday.

These use B-G mag-planar Neo-PDR-type drivers--four 5X10"ers for the MR and one 3" tweeter--in an MTM arrangement. The bass, also open-baffle, is reproduced by two 12" servo-controlled moving-coil drivers driven by a 500-Watt plateamp.

One characteristic that most SETs have is relatively high output impedance that does NOT do well with moving-coil drivers and especially those that have widely varying impedances and wide variances in phase angles. Mag-planar drivers have little of those and hence are very well suited to SET amps.

So far, the Frankensteins and the Serenitys sound VERY good together.

Generally, SET amps sound more like music to me than any other type of amplifier. Using them with properly suited speakers help them get you closer to the music.
Tin-eared audiofool, large-scale-Classical-music lover, and damned-amateur fotografer.
William Bruce Cameron: "...not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
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pstrisik
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Re: S.E.T. Vs CJ Amp

Post by pstrisik »

Wow! Impressive!

Thus far, I've preferred the sound from my 10wpc single ended tetrode more than anything I've had prior. This is with 87db sensitive AR2ax speakers even. I have on order a pair of 95db Omega Super 7 XRS - single driver speakers. Look Ma, no push pull, no negative feedback, no crossovers!

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(Are we in the non-CJ section? :oops:)
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
[/color]
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