Ye Olde Sonographe 250

From tubes to solid state.
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Animal
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Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by Animal »

The Sonographe line was CJ's "entry level" gear during the mid 90's. I got this one via Audiogon a few years back; it was shipped to me in a video player box with t-shirts wrapped around it as "packing material". Those of you who have used A-gon in the past know what I am talking about - there is NO telling how the equipment you buy is going to show up. In any event, I got on the phone with Ed at CJ, told him about the t-shirt packaging (I believe his words were "Oh, dear.") and ordered the correct box. Upon receipt of the box I shipped it off to CJ for them to look it over. They returned it with a clean bill of health, which does say a lot about the build quality of their amps, although I would not recommend shipping even their electronics wrapped in t-shirts.

The amps specs are as follows:
Power: 125 watts per channel RMS both channels driven into 8 ohms from 20Hzto 20KHz with no more than 1% total harmonic distortion or intermodulation distortion.
Gain: 25.5 dB
Phase: Phase Correct (non-inverting)
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 KHz +0, -.25 dB
Hum and noise: 96 dB below full power output.
Input impedance: 100K ohms.
Dimensions: 13.25"D x 17.125"W x 4.875"H
Weight: 30 lbs.

I specifically asked Ed about the safety of using this amp to drive 4 ohm loads (I am guessing most of you know that CJ is fairly reticent about publishing 4 ohm information). Ed asked me a question in return: Which speakers are you using? When I told him I was going to drive Magneplanars, he indicated that would be no problem at all. He further amplified (sorry, couldn't help it) his position by saying that not all 4 ohm speakers are created equally. Virtually no speakers have a truly flat impedance, and while some 4 ohm speakers (such as Magnepans) have a rise in their impedance curve at a specific point in their frequency range, other 4 ohm speakers dip dramatically, getting close to 1 ohm (here's looking at you, Apogee Scintilla). Due to this wide variation in actual impedance vs nominal impedance, which CJ has no control over whatsoever, they avoid rating their amps for 4 ohm loads.

Anyhow, pics:

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MrAcoustat
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by MrAcoustat »

Another old one, BUT what an amplifier, if i could find a MINT one i woul not hesitate. :) :) :)

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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by admin »

I own the Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000. It's a great amp. I posted a review of the Evolution 2000 here. If anybody has the chance to pick one of these babies up, I definitely recommend it. It's tube and solid state mixed into one! They're great for hard to drive speakers as well (I use some martin logan electrostats which definitely benefit from ample power).


Interesting story about why CJ never publishes 4 ohm ratings. I always wondered about that and now we have the answer!

Love the pictures of the sonographe!
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Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by rthomeint »

I owned a Sonographe SA-250 and the speaker I had at the time were a pair of Eminent Technology LFT-4. This speaker was rated a 80db 1 watt 1 meter. and this amp had no problem driving the speakers. I sold the amp and speakers to a co=worker at the time. I wish I had kept both.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by Jim Treanor »

I have two SA-250's, one in my bedroom system (tethered to an SC25 preamp) and the other in my home office (coupled to a Counterpoint SA-2000 line stage), driving standmounted Paradigm SE-1's in both cases. I acquired both via eBay. One (along with the SC25) arrived in pristine condition, the other with a banged-up faceplate but otherwise fully operational. Because I wanted flexibility in the choice of interconnects and thought the input jack spacing a bit tight for larger cables, I had a local technician install Vampire RCA's in a wider configuration on both amps. One also has Cardas speaker terminals installed (and the other will get a pair soon).

Sweet amps that I consider keepers.

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Bedroom: Luminous Audio Axiom II, MF2500, Win10 Laptop, TEAC UD501, Paradigm Studio 20 v.5
Home Office: Luminous Audio Axiom II, Sonographe SA250, Paradigm SE-1
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by Bluesbob »

Last year I purchased an SA400 to drive my rebuilt MGII's. I only had a couple of months to use it because we moved. It is packed away while we build a new home for our retirement. It was the best sounding amp I had heard in my system. Other amps I had were by Threshold, Forte, Rotel, VSP Labs and c-j (MV52).
I am hooked on Maggies and the big Sonographe really makes them sing.
"What, me worry?"
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by georose »

I love my "Ye Olde" CJ 250! One peculiarity is the polarity adjustment needed to get the great sound. It is a two prong plug and if you plug it in the "wrong" way the sound is not very nice. Never heard that in an amp before or since. In order to split the signal to a subwoofer, I needed a ground interrupt transformer for my high end Yamaha receiver. This problem didn't occur with the CJ Sonograph preamp. Maybe it's because I now have one subwoofer dedicated to stereo (using splitter) and another for LFE from Yamaha for movies, SACD.

I have nothing but praise for the support CJ has given me in the past. I bought the Sonograph pair quite a few years ago before DAC's were a common term for digital stuff.

The CJ 250 continues to serve me well.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by planarlover »

I have an SA 250 and am running it with a PV-5 pre. I am running Martin Logan Motion 4's and a Dynamo 700 sub on output 2 of the PV-5. I realize the amp is a bit much for the Motions 4's so I keep it at low to medium volume. This amp makes these little speakers sound amazing. My friends think I have something hidden in the room. I also have a pair of Maggie 1.6's that I pull out and hook up when the wife and kids are out of the house for a few hours. The imaging and soundstage that this amp can produce with the 1.6's will raise the hair on the back of your neck! I also have run MMG's and MMGW's all with good results. I have pushed all these speakers with nice Adcom, Denon, and Yamaha equipment. Nothing compares to the SA-250.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by planarlover »

Just wanted to add, if for no other reason than to stir up some good conversation, I think the SA-250 is the best amp that can be found in the $500 range. I am yet to hear anything for less than $1200 that compares favorably. If you combine this amp with a tube preamp, you have magic! I hang out at highend audio stores and BS with friends a lot so I have heard many very nice pieces of equipment. I understand that better amps exist, just not it this price range.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by lanf08 »

If anyone is interested in selling a in good condition unit I might be interested.
Thanks
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by texlle »

I was able to find a mint SA-250 on ebay last year for $350 shipped and consider myself very lucky. These amps seem to pop up once in a blue moon on the bay anymore. I pair it with a PV14LS and Totem Hawk's and am impressed with each listening section. A very, tubey, velvety sounding piece of equipment.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by camusmuse »

texlle wrote:I was able to find a mint SA-250 on ebay last year for $350 shipped and consider myself very lucky. These amps seem to pop up once in a blue moon on the bay anymore. I pair it with a PV14LS and Totem Hawk's and am impressed with each listening section. A very, tubey, velvety sounding piece of equipment.
Very nice score there. I have always felt that the Sonographe series, were always BUILT with the same quality as CJ. Please someone correct me, if I am wrong. But the build is just as, if not more so, important than the components(yes to a certain level that is not true, but I doubt anything coming out of CJ would use "subpar" components), maybe not as nice as "real" CJ, but still....far and above what other companies may use.

I have often considered this model in place of the the CJ equivalent(still forget the exact model, 100 something or other but definitely solid state for my tri amped "CJ dream"....can you tell I am not in the market to buy one??? Will trade car audio...and I have more than an extensive collection). But in all honesty my mortgage comes first....as do about ten other things. Cest la vie. Strangely I hold on to car amps from the nineties like gold, I used to install. Now between Ebay/Paypal, I refuse to pay a third of what I MIGHT get....some are so special, no one knows what they are. IE...I have and Orion XTR (red amp) heat sink that never made it to the CNC....any way, I digress....and apologize for thread jacking. I love this site, and the people here though few, seem to be true audio fanatics....a term I prefer much more to "audiophile". Sorry, any "....phile".....has only one connotation to me.....not lol.

Again, great purchase, ever get tired of it, I will beg borrow steal to buy this after ADMIN gives up hist CJ tube DAC.....lol.
Good Dog Jocko
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by Good Dog Jocko »

I paid $911 for a used C-J MF-2250 without a scratch that looked just like new and less than 2 years old and it arrived in the original C-J box with the original manual. I removed the top cover and had a good look inside, and I must say it looks nothing like that Sonographe 250. I have worked in biomedical engineering for 15 years and seen some high end electronics besides just audio gear. Besides a MUCH larger circuit board stuffed with many more C-J polystyrene capacitors and a fully enclosed proprietary design transformer....and Cardas connectors on the back.....my MF-2250 is as different from a Sonographe as it is from a B&K ST-140. It takes the $2200 retail price tag to stuff the board with the components that my MF-2250 came with, and even my previously beloved B&K ST-202+ has NOWHERE near the build quality of my C-J MF-2250. The difference in sound quality is easily apparent as well, and B&K is justifiably deserving of their reputation at their price point. But an $800 amp and a $2200 amp have some major differences in component quality. This is not to "diss" Sonographe or B&K, but components built in the 3-figure, 4-figure, or 5-figure leagues are not really comparable with each other.

I would buy used C-J PF or MF series components before considering anything new at the same price point. C-J solid state is about as underrated as it gets, and that means some good buys in their used gear. However, if you get a similar discount on old Sonographe or B&K components and it pleases you, then go for it. Either will surpass the Adcoms or Haflers of their day. It is all some are able to afford anyway, and I understand that. Both my old B&K units bought in 1991 are still 100% functional with never a problem, and all 3 of my C-J units from 2001 are 100% functional with never a repair except for tube changes in the PV-14L and EV-1.

FWIW, when I play my old B&K amps, I am reminded more of C-J than I am reminded of my old Hafler preamp and power amp that were in the B&K price league. I suppose Sonographe is similar, but the build quality is more B&K than C-J. Just a fact.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by Macone »

Very old thread !
I too am trying to run Maggie’s with this amp...1.7s.
I too was a tad nervous about it, but partly on the weight of this post ( plus many years
running Maggie’s) went for it.
Problem is, I’m blowing a fuse 4 times now. No heat, just normal, slightly loud, listening levels.
Always the same fuse....left channel, inboard fuse of pair ar back. Older amp, so could have had many chances to get the value wrong, but in it was 3 amp slo blo.
So here’s the question.... anyone know what’s the right fuse compliment, or got a schematic for the sa 250?
3 amps sounds a tad weak to me for this application.
Been searching for days!
Thanx
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by admin »

Hi Macone,
Welcome to CJO. Great to have you with us.

As you know, Maggies are pretty hard to drive. The speakers are rated at 4 ohm but they drop a lot lower at certain frequencies. Do you find that the fuse is blowing at specific frequencies/volumes? CJ I believe only rates the Sonographe 250 at 8 ohms, I wonder if it was designed to be used with speakers that may dip to 2 ohms at time? Not sure why only one channel is consistently blowing?
-admin
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Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Re: Ye Olde Sonographe 250

Post by roberto »

Hola Macone,

Admin is right! For testing the channel, why don't you use left channel as right and the right as left. Just swap the channels, left input is the red cable interconnect and the other to the right. Same with the speakers. This way, we will know if your power amp is OK or the speaker is causing the problem. If you blow now the left fuse, then you know now that it is the speaker, not the power amp. If the same fuse blows, then you might need to re-adjust the bias with a little bit less current.
Happy listening!
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