Two new power amps from CJ for 2017!

From tubes to solid state.
ronenash
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Re: Two new power amps from CJ for 2017!

Post by ronenash »

RJ,
For a couple of years I had the ML Spire mated with a CJ LP70 and a Beard P100 tube amplifiers. The combination was heavenly and I could live happily ever after with it. You lose the highest frequencies because of the very low impedance of the ESL panel at those frequencies but at my age I am no longer hearing these frequencies anyway and I was not feeling I was missing anything.

Enjoy you set up. Its up there with the best.
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roberto
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Re: Two new power amps from CJ for 2017!

Post by roberto »

Hola Ronen...please excuse my dare to being posted my findings with this new Classic One twenty SE power amp. I do know that most of you have and use better amps than this outstanding for me, power amp. For the first time, now I can understand clearly what is the meaning of transparency term.
This amp opens up the stage, but with a very delicate inner detail. On some piano recordings (Alicia de la Rocha, playing Mozart and Valentina Lisitsa, playing Beethoven) you can almost listen the hammer with the plush hitting the piano strings, and them all the harmonic piano texture arise.

The special edition built with these metal foil resistors and teflon capacitors, really need a lot of time to break in. I was not getting all the air and size of the musical instruments that I am getting now.

On this last Sunday, I installed my Audio Research VT-100MKIII modified for KT-120s and metal resistors, and no teflon, but good quality Mundorf capacitors with vishay resistors metal film. I am very accustomed to its sound, because I had this unit modified by 3 years now, and I can say, this new CJ unit smoked it...the presence of the music, and the stage, the right size of the instruments...yes, I know, I am boring you with my reports, but I can't help it!...all I can say is: Thanks CJ for this wonderful new power amp...my ears are granted!
Happy listening!
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Two new power amps from CJ for 2017!

Post by Big Dog RJ »

G'day Ron and Roberto,

Yes agreed on that combination, the LP70S was a superb amplifier indeed. I am not very familiar with the ML spire but I can definitely confirm one thing though- the Quads could not do high frequencies! According to specs, they say it tops around 22Hz or so... but sadly it doesn't. We measured this using some sort of gadget at the ML dealers place, has quite a number of Quad ESL's. Previous owners, like myself, have traded in their Quads for ML's, and they do deliver the top frequencies, all the way down to a very tight super fast bass, that blends seamlessly with the panel. This coherence, I did not find with previous ML hybrids, and in that regard ML has definitely come a long way.

Hence, my reason for changing from the old SL3 to the CLSIIz, and then back to Quads... I really loved this combination and with cj amplification, it was just beautiful music- until of course the 2905's started breaking down. I still regret purchasing them in Aus, they cost a fortune and with that money spent, I could have easily got the ML CLX and a wonderful cj pre-power to drive it. That would have been all that was required.

I have done some pretty stupid purchases in the past, the wifey would be the best to explain this. At one point I was on the upgrade band wagon with interconnects and cables, getting my hands on anything that sounded great- to a lesser extent that was. I think it was all a mind game...
I remember upgrading all interconnects to top line Nordost, and was telling the wifey that I could hear inner detail like no other. Her reply was- in that case why the hec couldn't I hear her when she's calling me from the kitchen... And this same joke appeared somewhere in Stereophile or TAS, ha!

I then sold off the whole dam lot and started over again with DH labs, and now I'm very content with their Air Matrix Silver Sonic series, speaker cable being the Q10 signature version 2- and that's it, done!

Back in the day, if ever I would listen to something great and sounded only 1.5% better than what I was hearing from my current system, I would just have to have it! I would go all out and make the purchase, and then realise something else was offered at a much lower price and bettered that new dam thing I bought by a far margin! And this folks is called dumb ass with a capital D and capital A.

These forums certainly helped me a lot over the past decade, specially WBF and CJ, plus a few others. I have yet to hop onto the ML forum but will do when we move into the new place. Now my dealer chappy from cj is offering me the LP125se at a very special price, not even worth mentioning. They certainly are nice sounding amplifiers, and with the ET5 pre, this is basically all I would ever need.

I am very keen to audition the Classic 120 with EL34's, since this is my favourite tube of all time. I do like the KT120's, no doubt they deliver all the slam and dynamics that is required but they don't have that midrange finesse of the EL34.
When I listened to my old pop's system first with his Apogee Diva's and back then the Premier 8's with EL34's, that was wonderful! Later sold off the prem 8's and went Audio Research and Krell in bi-amp mode. The Diva's were sold off just a few years ago to a deserving long time friend, and the amps as well. Pops is now 83 will be on 84 in June, and the Diva's went through numerous repairs on the ribbons, and frame, it wasn't even funny. I guess the tropics are cruel to panels, the only panels that lasted at least a few years were maggies. Before the ribbon elements would start sagging and eventually snap off, this would happen between 2-3 years.

I bought my first cj amp back then, a MV50 with a PV12. From that very first note, and I was hooked! It was like a transfix, and then later on the cj journey started with a premier 11A and so on...

Fast fwd 20 plus years, when I had the Quads (ESL2905), I tried several amps that included the premier 350 with my Act2. The prem 350 was like driving a Ferrari in a 60km zone. Just wanted to rev the thing every so often, way too powerful specially for Quads, no point in this kind of power. Similar experience with the MC452, another powerful beast and one that was very musical with the Act2. Then came along an ARTsa with EL34's and ah! Now that was like walking into a cool room on a very hot day, being served a nice cold drink from a very hot lady friend... oh yeah! The Artsa was nothing like I've ever heard. I couldn't afford one but the owner very kindly allowed me to have it for a few weeks with the Quads, and boy did I enjoy every minute of that experience.

Now, I have heard the previous LP125sa, which was also capable of ART standards in "SE" version and was more affordable. But again the SE version had KT120's, and so I preferred the EL34 version. To me the EL34 is just more engaging, and with a highly transparent transducer such as ML panels, that experience is just superb! Currently I am experiencing this to some extent, therefore I don't want to ruin it with SE versions and go back full circle with KT120's, ending up with EL34's.

I'm in my mid 40's now and getting a bit grumpy but I have learned a hec of a lot from all of you and for that I do thank you all. I am also now much closer to the family priorities, and choose very wisely, since I have had both my fingers and bum burnt over again...

The LP125se is still available and the Classic 120 is yet to be shipped... I have decided to wait it out this time, just to compare notes. I do know for a fact that I will really like the Classic 120 with EL34's. I will get totally confused with what pre to use, and depending on finances, I just prefer simplicity, therefore the Classic pre would be an excellent choice but no longer offered in Aus.

So with that dilemma, I'm now going to just sit back and enjoy the music from what I've currently got, and be satisfied with it! After all, it does allow me to enjoy my music than ever before, so might as well.
Cheers maties and many thanks for the advice.
RJ
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Re: Two new power amps from CJ for 2017!

Post by roberto »

Hola RJ, I do share your feelings about the 6CA7/EL34 tube. I had them in my previous MV-50, MV-52s...an intoxicating sound came through them using my CLSs. At that time, I use two power amps in bridge mode. I took off the 100K resistor at the input of one channel, and put the channels together, and use a jumper from the 8 ohm tabs on both output transformers and use common and 8 ohm, being in parallel connection, them the load was 4 ohms.
Because the CLS need power, this array gave it...until I got the premier 4 with the same EL-34s.

I had my CLSs from 87 to 2012, all CLSs models, ended with the CLSIIz. Became a very good friend with Jim Power until he retires, and also Gayle Sanders. I had a lot of good advice from both!

In 2006 I got my ARC VT-100MKIII, the last design by Mr. William Zane Johnson, and I did like a lot its design. I had it for some years as my reference power amp, because I did try a lot of different brands, and just kept the VT-100MKIII until I spoke with Mr. Lew Johnson, who encourage me to try this new baby Classic One Twenty SE. He did mention that the SE version was built with better quality components, and if I was picky, that´s the one that I should try.

I really never thought that I was going to expect such big difference in sound quality. This baby just smoked my beloved ARC. Please don´t get me wrong. The VT-100MKIII is a very good well balanced sound, but not as close to this league of sound quality.

The comparison perhaps its not fair...and old design vs new design. But that´s not all...you can hear the quality components immediately! The design is so simple and the result is outstanding. I am really that impressed. Also, this amp exhibits a superb dynamics control. Its not over sized with the musical instruments and its not exorbitant. It handles the dynamic contrast with much care, and also its very delicate with the expression of the musical instrument. ( I wish that I could speak more fluent English to express myself better ). On female voices, when there are several singers, you can listen every one with easy way...you do not get any confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EVzd0G ... GD1n5w-qYm

This recording is one of my reference. I do know that here, with small speakers, you might not get the full potencial for voices...but is just a sample...here you can listen 4 voices including using half notes between the harmony and melody. With the right speakers, this is a very difficult to play without any disturbance and must be well separated, where you can select each voice. Take a listen, you might like it as I do.

Happy listening!
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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Re: Two new power amps from CJ for 2017!

Post by ronenash »

If you love the EL34 sound try the new Mullard reissue KT88's. I find them more musical than the KT120. They are warmer in the mids and sound similar to the Gold Lion KT88 at a much lower price. They are very dynamic with great extension.
ronenash
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Re: Two new power amps from CJ for 2017!

Post by roberto »

Yes right! But there are things that the KT120s do very good too. The lower mid range is outstanding, also it has a very good stable and solid stage, with the right sense of 3D, also the bass is robust without being too strong, making this not to be with the bass instrument(s) over sized. Its another way to reproduce them. Are the musical instruments that warmer at the mid-range? I am just trying out another very good option of how to reproduce the musician(s) here, in my own room..the KT-120s are very good from down to zip, and dynamics? My system, never had this quality and precision with dynamics!

I do believe that over all sound and your system or I should say our system, its a matter of liking. What I do like, not necessary must be your liking! But, your findings and my findings merge somewhere in a certain point to make this hobby, the most gratifying. We had spent hours of time listening different components in the audio gear, its our hobby. And also, we know what's inside on each component too. The design has to do with the quality of the sound, but what had made me to get goosebumps almost every time that I listen to the music, its the simple design with quality parts. Conrad Johnson offers this model with both tubes...because I was using the KT-120s with my previous amp, the ARC, I decided to listen what CJ could does with them, and the truth to me is: I am very happy with the results! Also I do know that this is not the best amp of the world, but for what you pay for it, my ears tell me its a truly winner!!!.

Thanks for the super advice Ronen, I assure you that I do know what are you saying! El-34/6CA7 its a wonderful sounding tube. The option to have the KT-120s its not unmusical or bad. I do believe that if the tube is not good, and will not provide the standards for the companies that offer this tube, why C-J and other audio companies are using it? Its their reference tube...
ML CLX BF-210 Stage X Motion 4. CJ 120SE amp ET7V2 pre, Holo May Kte Dac. Mac Pro. Power Cond. BPT Signature+ 3.5, Gaia II Feet. USB Lush^V3. Nordost SPM IC and Spk. Shun Mook, BCanto CD2 CD3. Linn LP-12/Unitrack tonearm/Denon DL103R MC.
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