PV12>PV11>Premier 2

[AudioDIY]

I am intrerested to replace my aging Premier 2. I am kind of wonder ... Is PV12 > PV11 > PV10> Premier 2? How do they compare to Premier 3? Does Premier 3 sound better than all PV series? Please let me know. Thanks.

[admin]

I can't speak for all these models but as an owner of the PV12 I can say that it really does sound excellent. Also, when comparing something like the PV12 to early Premier's you have to remember that it is a much later unit. The PV12A for example was released in the late 90's while the Premier's are early to mid 80's units. In my opinion they all sound good, but I always wonder if in a 30 year old unit the caps and other not easily replaceable parts (ie, not tubes) start wearing out. With that said I have heard a very good sounding PV1 with all original components (other than tubes).

This probably did not help you in making a choice!

[rthomeint]

I think the PV12 would have the edge over a Premier 2. It is eleven years younger. I owned a PV12 and it was excellent sound quality. I never heard a PV11 my parents have a PV10A and that is nowhere near as good as the PV12. I remember the premier 3 I would say the PV12 is more neutral sounding again the PV12 has ten more years of Cj refinement as well as improvements in parts quality.

[unclestu52]

IIRC the Premier 2 used a 6X4 rectifier' gave it an extraordinarily sweet sound. Modify the unit with better caps and such and I think you'd be very happy

[AudioDIY]

I agreed that it is a sweet sounding pre-amp. I am going to upgrade the capacitors but the schemestic found in this site is kind of blury. I could not clearyl identify the capacitor's labels map them to the part list. Can some one forward me a better copy of the schemestic if you have one. Thanks.

[AudioDIY]

I've just bought a Premier 10 line stage to replace my aging Premier 1 from AudiogoN. I think its new price in 1992 was $6,000 and I got it for $1250. I hope it sounds much better.

Can I use the phone section of my Premier 1 via the tape output?

Any input and comments are wellcome. Thanks.

[admin]

Congrats on the purchase. I don't see why you couldn't use the tape out on the Premier 1. It should be line level volume.

[Ian Millar]

I have a Premier Ten (got it for about $400 about 10 years ago). I also have a PV10AL. They sound the same to me, but if you put fancy valves (like French Mazdas of CIFTEs) into the PV10AL it will oscillate and scream like a siren after warming up. I believe it may need ceramic bypass caps installed across some of the valve pins for such valves to work, but I see no point and it's is OK with basic valves like Sylvanias etc. The Premier Ten is a good preamp as long as Mullard 6GK5s are not used. They actually sound dreadful compared to basic Sylvanias, but it would not need to have any "capacitor upgrades" at all IMO. All of the caps are robust PPs. Having built and repaired, measured and listened to many amps I simply do not understand the audiophile obsession with capacitors. They provide capacitance and substitution with exotic expensive parts makes no audible difference. If they're robust and they work, I just leave them be. Of course older electrolytics should be replaced with new ones.

[hukkfinn]

I am intrerested to replace my aging Premier 2. I am kind of wonder ... Is PV12 > PV11 > PV10> Premier 2? How do they compare to Premier 3? Does Premier 3 sound better than all PV series? Please let me know. Thanks.

My experience is that "it depends on what you like." The PV12 is better than the PV10 in some ways but not all. The PV12 has better, faster, and more robust bass, and a more full, stable sound overall. However its soundstage was very 2-dimensional compared to my PV10B. The PV10B had real 3-dimensional depth. The PV12 did not -- its soundstage was large but unfortunately flatter, like a sheet of wallpaper behind the speakers.

The PV10B might have had better transparency in the mids and highs, as well. The PV12 can sound a tad bit congested.

In general, I would avoid the really old preamps, and focus on the most recent that you can get. However, I would be careful about the PV14 series because it's a hybrid -- those little peanut tubes are not as involving as the 12au7's / etc. in the other PV preamps.

-Hukk