Breaking in a Premier 17LS

The PV-1 to now...
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pstrisik
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

Post by pstrisik »

Back to report in.

Nothing dramatic.

It is clear that I am getting a wider soundstage, more depth, and more subtle midrange definition (like the "woody" sound from a sax and the clearer resolution of subtle voice changes). All good stuff. I listened longer and didn't want to stop. But my ears were clearly bothered at the end. Whether this is still the result of the pre or from listening longer, I don't know yet. So I will use it for a week or so and then listen again with the pre/pro instead of the CJ pre and compare.

Still undecided.

This is clearly a function of my hearing sensitivities and nothing to criticize the 17LS. My wife quickly said it sounded better to her ears. It has been a long struggle to get this system performing as well as possible without hurting my ears. A balancing act for sure.

It may be that I just need to work more on some room treatment to "tame" what I am hearing. I've got more material, just need to mound the acoustic foam on my already cut 2 x 4 pieces of paneling and hang them.

Interesting that I prefer the stock Sovtek tubes over the Matsushita's. The latter seem to push the sound too much. Perhaps because they run at higher voltage? Perhaps my imagination? I'll likely try them again though.

I'll try to finally get some system photos up in the gallery.
.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

Post by admin »

pstrisik wrote:Back to report in.

Nothing dramatic.
In all honesty, I find that "breaking in equipment and tubes" does help the sound, but as you said, "nothing dramatic" in my experience. If the sound is not to your liking and you want a significant change, you may have to look at the most important component,... the speakers. Did I just imply that your CJ unit is not the most important piece of hardware?, sounds like sacrilege! :)

You may also want to try changing the interconnects as sometimes this can effect the overall sound as well, what kind of interconnects are you using now?

And as you said, you may want to give it a few days of listening before making any final conclusions. Try it out on a variety of musical types. Good luck, keep us informed how it's going.
-admin
Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

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Thanks. The speakers I have evolved to (AR 2ax's -restored with new pots and caps) have been the most pleasing of anything I have tried thus far - from Paradigm Studio 40, Salk SS-8, LSA-1 - a good variety of design styles. I agree that the mid/tweeter technologies will play a large part in my solution. I feel less flexibility in trying more speakers as shipping here is very expensive. Possibly with trial period of new speakers, but even used is risky with the shipping costs. Makes only bookshelves very feasible for testing. Having said all that, I wouldn't mind trying Fritz Carbon 7's or Von Schweikert UniField 2. But I think the AR's are here for a while.

Interconnects are Tara Labs (can't recall the model - they are kind of a green/torquiose) between source and pre and Blue Jeans LC-1 between pre and amp. Shipping is easy with interconnects but I find it difficult to pay big bucks for something that I have some skepticism about once above good quality (good shielding, low capacitance) IC's.
.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
[/color]
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

Post by admin »

I totally hear you about the shipping costs of speakers, being large and heavy they cost a lot to ship anywhere, but up to Alaska must be crazy.

I am not familiar with Tara Labs (in name yes, but I've actually never heard them live). I am intimately familiar with Blue Jeans LC-1 as I use LC-1 in my interconnects. It's not the actual terminated cables Blue Jeans sells, but I bought the LC-1 cable from them and terminated them with my own locking RCA plugs (I really like locking plugs), and put a custom "rattlesnake" design covering. I find it hard to believe that the LC-1 is giving you problems. It's a rather neutral cable and I think it's very transparent and detailed. No harshness introduced there. I wrote a DIY guide to making the cables in the DIY selection of CJO if interested and you wanted to take a look viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11. Just in case if you think it may be the cables, you may want buy some of monoprice's premium RCA cables for a test run. They sound absolutely terrible, low detail, muddies the sound, but they take out any kind of harshness that is prone to give listener fatigue. Not something you would want to keep in your system (maybe use it as a digital coaxial cable) but it would only be for test purposes, and you can get two rca cables for less than $10.
-admin
Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

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Well, I have another pair of the BJ's and should try them in place of the Tara Labs. I didn't think of it since the Tara's are 1 meter and the spare BJ's are several meters. Worth an experiment though.

Interesting idea to try "terrible" interconnects! I have some basic ones that came with DVD players, etc. Another worthy experiment. Never thought of testing in that direction to evaluate improvement from cables I already have!
.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
[/color]
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

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The reason I am suggesting is that I have heard (very expensive) silver cables on systems and although they are very detailed, they also can sound very harsh sometimes. For me it's the "harsh" sound that tends to fatigue my ears with listening. I don't like listening with monoprice cables because I loose detail, dynamics, and clarity,... but I don't get listener fatigue with them either. The LC-1 cable is the best of both worlds for my system, but each system will respond differently. It may be that the Tara labs/blue jeans cable may not be the best with your particular setup even though they are excellent cables unto themselves.
-admin
Home Theater in Member Gallery
Main stereo: ART Amplifier and ET7s2. 2nd stereo: PV-14L and MV-55. Previously Owned: PF2 preamp, Evolution 2000 Amp, PV-12AL preamp, D/A-2b Vacuum-Tube Digital Processor.
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

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I agree with your approach. I have already made sure that my cables are copper, and not silver, at least.
.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
[/color]
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

Post by aldinohiend »

Hello Peter, just a few tips to play well on the Premier 17:
- The valves are the most suitable Philips E88CC/6922 SQ gold pins;
- Remove the rings of silicone to the valves;
- The screws holding the bottom panel should be tightened;
- The screws that hold the top cover must be screwed just as it will go without being tightened;
- The screws that hold the valve cover must be screwed just as it will go without being tight.
Another recommendation. If you remove the bottom panel, you'll notice that the center is a screw on the other side (the inside) holds only one die. That screw should not be tightened but left slightly loose (flow rate at the stroke end, not tightened and loosened by 1/4 turn). The silver wire that you can use is the Kimber KCAG but I suggest you taken any signal cable but should not be the dielectric silicone. Do not use Cardas cables.
To make the sound a little more clear post, under 4 feet of the preamp, the Art Q Damper graphite.
Aldo
McIntosh MCD 1100
Conrad-Johnson GAT / Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 / Magneplanar 3.7i
Conrad-Johnson Premier 16 LS2 / Conrad-Johnson Premier 140
Conrad-Johnson Premier 18 / Conrad-Johnson MF-2500a / Dynaudio Confidence 5
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

Post by unclestu52 »

Remember that all CJ preamps with the new Volume control use a total of 13 resistors per side, in various combinations of series and parallel to create the 100 steps. If you break in the unit at one position, It may not incorporate all the resistors and sometimes changing the VC one step can kick in an unbroken in resistor. Try breaking in the unit at position 1 and 2, very low volume, which will use almost all the resistors.
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pstrisik
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

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unclestu52 wrote:Remember that all CJ preamps with the new Volume control use a total of 13 resistors per side, in various combinations of series and parallel to create the 100 steps. If you break in the unit at one position, It may not incorporate all the resistors and sometimes changing the VC one step can kick in an unbroken in resistor. Try breaking in the unit at position 1 and 2, very low volume, which will use almost all the resistors.
Now you tell me!!

Interesting, I'd not heard that before. Most of the break in was done more around 20. But, I've been listening since and it is sounding better and better to me. Combination of further breakin and perceptual adaptation, I'm sure. At this point, it is looking like I will keep it. I am appreciating more the sound qualities it offers. My system now is at a place where I can almost tangibly perceive where further improvements (like the teflon upgrade to the 17LS, and/or LP series mono's might get me) instead of blindly hoping for some kind of improvement.

Integrating the 17LS into my home theater with good control with my harmony universal remote has been a challenge though. Having the mute button control the power is a problem. I can make it work if I am turning the system on from off, but if I'm changing from one activity to another, the mute command will just mute the preamp since it is already on. Not a huge deal for me, but WAF ! :cry:
.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
[/color]
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

Post by unclestu52 »

ALL CJ preamps using their "new" microprocessor control volume control with 100 steps, uses 13 resistors per side in series and parallel to create the 100 steps. Thus if you attempt break in at your normal listening level you may NOT be using all the resistors. Even moving a step above and below can introduce an unbroken in resistor. Break in the VC at level 1 and then 2 to use all the devices.
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Re: Breaking in a Premier 17LS

Post by pstrisik »

An update.......

I tried Genelex Gold Lion 6922's and am liking them more than any of the three other tube models I've tried. I'm at the "keeper" point now. Still looking for improvement, but have left the "I'm not sure about this preamp" stage! Image
.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Peter


Dennis Had Inspire LP-2 preamp
Dennis Had Inspire KT150 amp
Thorens TD-145 MkII
Restored AR 2ax', Omega Super 7 XRS Alnicos
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6/DAC Magic +
[/color]
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