ET3 burn in period?

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ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:02 pm

Hello all you fellow CJ owners!
Got my first CJ product today. It was supposed to bring tube sweetness and musicality to my otherwise transparent SS system: Sonos-> CHORD DAC64->CJ ET3->Meridian G57-> Shahinian Obelisk.
But. Once switched on the CJ Sounds dark and mushy and not transparent or musical at all.
Hence my question: Howe much burn in time does it require to shine?
And what tubes work best with it? I suppose stock tube is not of the best quality sonically...
Thanks!

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by roberto » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:39 am

hola Jazzz,
Usually the break in time is about 200 to 300 hours...yes that´s a lot of time. Just leave your preamp on with music. (you do not need to play it through the system) and in 10 days, you are going to start to enjoy C-J sound! I did happen to me too. It really takes that time...mine start to shine when I got about 500 hours! and my system never sound as it is right now! The C-J sound is breath-taking...yes! that good!

Happy listening!
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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:49 am

roberto wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:39 am
hola Jazzz,
Usually the break in time is about 200 to 300 hours...yes that´s a lot of time. Just leave your preamp on with music. (you do not need to play it through the system) and in 10 days, you are going to start to enjoy C-J sound! I did happen to me too. It really takes that time...mine start to shine when I got about 500 hours! and my system never sound as it is right now! The C-J sound is breath-taking...yes! that good!

Happy listening!
Thanks, Roberto. Waiting waiting waiting for this highly praised CJ magic to come alive.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by admin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:49 am

I would also go with Roberto's recommendation of +300 hours of burn-in. When I replaced a single bad tube in my PV12 I noticed a significant improvement in sound after about 50 hours. So you may notice improvement earlier on but you never know as each tube and piece of equipment is different. The "10 days on" as Roberto mentioned is pretty full proof and you should notice a significant improvement by then (even if not fully burned in).
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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:28 am

admin wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:49 am
I would also go with Roberto's recommendation of +300 hours of burn-in. When I replaced a single bad tube in my PV12 I noticed a significant improvement in sound after about 50 hours. So you may notice improvement earlier on but you never know as each tube and piece of equipment is different. The "10 days on" as Roberto mentioned is pretty full proof and you should notice a significant improvement by then (even if not fully burned in).
Thank you.
I certainly will.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:40 pm

Hi Jazz,
Which ET3 do you have I’m supposing it’s the none SE version, also do you have the phono stage incorporated. As Roberto and admin have suggested it markedly opens up and becomes much more transparent after 300-400 hours constant use.
After this time you will see onto the music removing the mush and vagueness you mention with much improved clarity, You might also have a wondering image in this time and experience it sounding wonderful one minute and then suddenly going backwards and sounding mushy and small, flat and sluggish. But don’t worry this is all part of the process.
It will continue to improve then for the next six months or so but not as dramatically but you will still notice it caps need to form and reform from new which accounts for the break in period.
My New ET5 sounded very mediocre when I first plugged it in and now 6 Weeks of constant use sounds nothing like it did when i first got it. so be patient it will eventually settle in and it will be worth it.
Congratulations on your purchase,
Cheers,
Jonty.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:26 pm

JONTY wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:40 pm
Hi Jazz,
Which ET3 do you have I’m supposing it’s the none SE version, also do you have the phono stage incorporated. As Roberto and admin have suggested it markedly opens up and becomes much more transparent after 300-400 hours constant use.
After this time you will see onto the music removing the mush and vagueness you mention with much improved clarity, You might also have a wondering image in this time and experience it sounding wonderful one minute and then suddenly going backwards and sounding mushy and small, flat and sluggish. But don’t worry this is all part of the process.
It will continue to improve then for the next six months or so but not as dramatically but you will still notice it caps need to form and reform from new which accounts for the break in period.
My New ET5 sounded very mediocre when I first plugged it in and now 6 Weeks of constant use sounds nothing like it did when i first got it. so be patient it will eventually settle in and it will be worth it.
Congratulations on your purchase,
Cheers,
Jonty.
Hi Jonty,
Thanks for your input. Mine is the non-SE version with no phono stage (don't need it anyway, I am digital only).
So basically all the above means to say that the preamp needs to be on all the time, right? I am leaving it on for the week 24/24 with music flowing through it at 40:40 volume. Correct?
On top of sounding mushy and vague it currently sounds very limited on the top and bottom end and very flat.
I am going away for 5 days and will leave it on. Hope when I am back it improves.
Thanks four your advice y'all :D

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:45 pm

Yes 24/7 is correct as I said it will Sound very matter of fact vague one dimensional, a wandering stereo image all over to one side then the other.
The image will pretty much be flat between the speakers with no depth or width. (I also had a ET3 from new) the frequency exstreams will fill out around 200-300 and beyond, when you’ll see much better height width depth and front to back imageing much more 3 Dimensional more bass extension with a lower noise floor.
Even though yours don’t have the Teflon caps it still takes time, I also recommend that you switch the amp off every 3 days for about 3 hours to allow the caps to drain and then switch it on again thus giving them a jolt and reforming, this can minimise run in a bit and help speed up the process. Be prepared for it to sound brilliant one minuet and then have a bit of a dip in performance the next especially towards the end of 300 hours, it can get a little frustrating but it’ll get there in the end, volume at 40 is fine.
Cheers,
Jonty.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Big Dog RJ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:43 pm

Thought I'd add my 50cts...

Agreed on the burn-in process, 200-300 is good, anything more is actually ideal. Audio Research takes forever, around 600 hrs and still doesn't sound that good. More or less about a year after, it begins to bloom.

As with the case with CJ preamps, these are their current versions. Therefore, although a burn-in process has been incorporated at the factory, when the unit leaves for shipping, the values of current and voltage all go back to zero. When powered up again, obviously this fires up but the quality signature sound takes a while to evolve.

You really don't have to leave the preamp on 24 hrs! That's not even safe to do so, if there was a lightening storm or some dam fault with the power grid to ever happen, all your electric components including the precious hifi will go bust! I would strongly advise not to leave anything on unattended for long periods. I have come across some major disasters with this, and this is actually how I got my pair of Wilson's sometime ago. The previous owner wanted to do this burn-in process with his new ARC amps and left the system on, whiles away. Came back home to find both the power and pre amps were gone! All fuses had blown across and the power amp required a major repair on the mains transformer, plus not to mention the Wilsons. The main cross over boards were gone, so I bought the speakers without the cross overs, that was a huge saving and the Wilson journey started there. Didn't have them for long though, as I ventured back into electrostats.

You don't have to leave anything on for long periods, just listen to the system as often as you can and allow it to naturally break-in. You will appreciate the music even more when your listening as usual, and all of a SUDDEN! the CJ musicality will just shine through! From this point onwards, you will also notice that the level settings will become easier to adjust and on most recording the 40 mark will be quite adequate, louder and more expansive in the soundstage. The beauty of the preamp is after is has nicely burned in naturally, even when volume levels are increased, it does not happen with a harsh dramatic effect, rather a subtle effect, one that is very smooth and pleasing to listen to. Similar to a camera lens, it will allow you to focus with just the right amount of playback level. After all you don't want the music too loud or over-bearing, this is not what CJ is about. With the right level settings, the experience is magical!

You will experience this level of sophistication and refinement in time to come, regardless of the SE version or standard, the internal parts do take a while to generate heat and deliver that capable megic. Be patient mate! and please off the system when you're not around...
Cheers RJ

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:53 am

Big Dog RJ wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:43 pm
Thought I'd add my 50ct
Cheers RJ
Thanks for your input, Big Dog RJ.
Duly noted.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:33 am

New input: the pre developed hiss in both channels, a lot more audible in the left channel. Stays constant 1 thru 40 volume, gone at 0 or mute. Tube gone bad?

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:10 am

Hi Jazz RJ,
You don’t need anything else switched on to burn in your pre amp but your Preamp and Your source, ie. you don’t need your power amp Phono Stage on ect which will help to mitigate RJ concerns, I used the radio on an app and on my iPhone and downloaded burn in tones also and put this through the usb on my CD player. RJ is right about turning everything off if your going away thats sensible advice, otherwise the burn in process is up to you, lighting strikes aside just don’t play your system if your experiencing one, fuses in the mains fuse box will trip to protect your equipment from surges spikes ect. but again id suggest this is rare and this will almost always take care of such an event.
The issue for me was tube ware/during the process, I put an old tube in while I was the burning in my pre amps as it takes its toll on your new tube so you can save it this way. Most people log there hours to get an idea where their at with the burn in process.
Let us know how you get on, its an and interesting journey but ultimately a rewarding one.
Cheers,
(I have also read somewhere that somebody contacted CJ about volume setting and they recommended setting the volume to around 50-60)
Jonty.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Big Dog RJ » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:37 pm

The tube hiss is normal.

This is a one slight issue with CJ's tube preamps- that dam hiss! sometimes it's very quiet and sometimes it is quite noticeable on one channel, usually the left. Hence, when I got my CAV45- absolutely zero hiss! mainly because there is no preamp stage in there. Also the input tube and phase inverter tubes are very low gain, inverter tubes are a rare NOS tube 12AV7 or 6595 tube. No one had this tube other than CJ, and when it went bad, I had to order through my CJ dealer direct , cost me $100 just for the pair!

Now I don't have the CAV45 any longer, now using the PV15 pre with the Classic 60SE and that famous "hiss" is back! However, this time not so much as before, it is more of a tube rush or very faint low level hiss equally from both channels, doesn't affect the sound at all, and actually goes very quiet once nothing is playing. It sorts of wakes up once a signal is being processed...

I found in all the CJ preamps I have used to date or on trial, PV10AL, PV12, Classic 1 & 2, ACT2, ET3SE, ET5, GAT and now the PV15, the PV15 was the most quiet of all. Also partly due to the tube used, the Mullard M8080 is quiet compared to the others, GE, EH etc.

If you want this tube hiss/rush to go away them you would have to try out several sets of this input tube used on your ET3, and check out which one provides the lowest noise. This can be cumbersome and sometimes very time consuming. I would try to ignore it and enjoy the music, rather than spend unnecessary money on tube brands. On the other hand, you could ask fellow ET3 users which tubes/brands they found to be most quiet and get the same.
Hope you can still enjoy the music, cheers RJ

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:48 pm

Assuming yours is from new with a new tube EH 6922 then this is normal it bothers some people and not others, if you can’t hear it from your listening position with nothing playing then don’t worry.
Both my ET3 and ET5 had audible hiss when putting your ear next to the drivers.
Hope this helps.
Jonty.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:09 pm

Thank you guys.
It is quite audible. It was not there when I switched the amp on the first time.
I feel it should not be there. Yes, it does bother me.
Also, I want to do some tube rolling in the hope that this makes my pre sound better.
However, I hear you loud and clear, thanks.
Have a Tesla Gold on the way )

Cheers,
Andrey

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by roberto » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:18 pm

It looks that you have a bad tube...if you have a spare, change it and take a listen. Usually changing the tube fixes the problem. It is not normal to have a odd noise in your system. Change the 6922 first and check.
Happy listening!
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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:34 pm

I agree with Roberto try too establish if it’s a bad tube or not.(the golden lion 6922 is an excellent tube replacement by the way) but I would use a cheap 6922 in your ET3 for the burn in process. It seems that the ET Series of pre amps are hard on tubes
If you read other users comments (RJ Big Dog) has a lot of experience in this area
An important question is did you purchase your ET3 from new...? If so then CJ should replace the Tube if you go through your dealer if not then this might explain why it’s noisy....
Jonty.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:43 pm

Yeah, most probably a bad tube.
I bought it secondhand, but unused, so no free replacements.
I have a Tesla e88cc coming my way.
I am also looking for - as somebody mentioned - a PCC88 tube, that will take the ET3 higher voltage easier.
Thanks y'all )

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:53 pm

Installed the Tesla. Much better sound, no hiss. Can't say much about sound improvement in general - have to fix a problem with the speakers first. But burn-in is going full throttle with Tara Labs Cascade disk.
Thanks for your advice and support.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:54 pm

Hi Jazz,
I’d consider not using your new Tesla tube to burn your ET3 in as it will take its toll on it if your full tilt 24/7.
Listen to it by all means but it won’t be meaningful until the ET3 is fully performing and you’ll be wasting a good tube.
I’d stick your EH back and let that take the hit... just put up with the hiss for now, particularly as you know that was the problem. It’ll be weeks 4-6 minimum before you’ll reap any benefits from your ET3.
Keep going it’s worth it my ET3 took months and my ET5 is still improving now two months on and expect it to to do so for months to come.
Happy Listening.
Jonty.

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