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ET3 burn in period?

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:11 am

JONTY wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:31 am
Hi Andrey,
I would suggest when you get your driver back that (as a good will gesture) that seller considers sharing some of the cost depending how much this turns out to be. However as Roberto says at least you can now fix the problem and finally get on to listening to some music...!!
Jonathan.
Jonathan,
That was my idea as well, but he outright refused to do so. I guess he thinks I am trying to use some lame way to bring the price down. I tried explaining but he wouldn't listen. It's either "I am taking the speakers back" or "no more discounts". Not a very nice guy to deal with. Also thinks it crazy to spend about $300 for driver rebuild, thinks is much cheaper to rebuild it locally (which I don't buy completely).
Whichever his attitude may be, I made my decision.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by roberto » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:20 pm

Hey Jonathan,
All I can say is: I am in Heaven. The system synergy is fantastic. The coherence, the harmonic texture of the musical instruments, the right size of the instruments, the air between them, the timbre, the nuances of the music, the transparency, all this is very, very good. Of course it is not perfect, but this is the first time in my whole Audioaficionado and Audiophile life, that I have a system this good! I have no complaint at all!. I just love to listen all the musician(s) that are playing here in my own room. Its a very warm sound! And the richness of the sound does not make you glut!

You all do know that I play some guitar, and I just love the way that I get the classical spanish type guitar here. You can hear how the player is plucking the strings and how he or she is doing with the right hand to get the musical effect on the strings. Also, you can tell the fingering of the left hand. You can tell easy which string the left hand is pressing at the fingerboard. Amazing!!!

My speakers are not perfect, but they are one of the fastest on Mother Earth. Why? The diaphragm that it moves weights less than the air the it moves. There is no inertia. It will move at the exact speed that the signal is coming, and will stop moving when the signal is not present. The transient response is almost perfect. When the CLXs came to the public, was at the Munich Audio Show in 2008. Two finalist remain at the end of the Show. The Grand Utopia, by JMLabs, France and the CLXs. For the first time of the Show in its history, the 11 judges nominated the CLXs as the Best Sound of the Show. This might tell you something about them.

When I first had the chance to have a serious listening with them, my heart got the Cupid angel arrow. It was love at the first auditioning! My problem was to get them here in Costa Rica, how to paired them good electronics. And to have super good electronics was at that time, a little out of my budget. But I had customers who had the C-J gear with the CLXs, and when I came to listen what I had previously, I had to wait a month or so to start to listen to my system. The customer´s sound was into my brain. Now, I am wondering what would be to have the Gat2 and the Monoblocks ART150.

I use Quality of Silence (dmp recording) by the drummer Steve Davis quite interesting. With this recording, you can judge the cymbals easy. With Conrad Johnson, they shine! The metal sound and the vibrations of the metal with the right energy and timbre, with an enormous wide stage. Try it, you might like it,

On strings, an old recording by Salvatore Accardo playing the violin, the six Paganini violin concerts. This is an amazing recording where you can listen a wonderful violin player full of effects. Try them too. The second concert, The Campanella, at the third movement, the triangle is played, and the violin plays the same note. The tune is perfect, but you can tell when is the violin and when is the triangle. Also, a lot of harmonics musical notes are played at the violin. Very high pitch notes here.

The piano, listening to Valentina Lisitsa, a russian piano player, at the Royal Albert Hall in London, with a Bossendorfer Grand Piano is superb. He piano coherence musical notes, the harmonics of the piano strings, the reverberation time, the way that she plays is wonderful.

The bass with Bryan Bromberg, the album Downright Upright, the first track, the trumpet is marvellous (flugelhorn). All the musicians are playing with attitude. Of course the bass solo by Bryan is amazing.

Barbara Sanderling, playing the bass at the recording double bass rarities, she plays the bass vs a cello. Incredible music and performance. You can distinguish very well both musical instruments easy. Beautiful music. Mostly renaissance.

The clarinet at the recording by Paquito D' Rivera, the Caribbean Jazz Project, the song Bolero, it surpass with stars the dynamics. Also the percussion instruments are very good.

Enjoy your system my friends!

Well guys, the truth is: Conrad Johnson sounds right!

I have another point of view in favor to C-J. This is: SERVICE. I do believe that the service is the most important on any product, regardless of the price. Here, Conrad Johnson has one the best service on electronics gear. I bow to Conrad Johnson service!!!

Happy listening my friends.
ML CLX speakers, BF-210 sub, Classic One Twenty SE amp. ET-7 C-J pre. Exasound E-32DAC, Mac Mini i7, Anthem MCA-3 power amp, Anthem AVM-60, Oppo BDP-103. ML Stage X Center, Motion 4, BPTSignature 3.5 Plus condiciones.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by roberto » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:31 pm

Andrey,

I do believe that the cost of the driver won´t matter. This might the reason why the seller did sell them. On the other hand, you got a very good price. The apparent lack of high frequency is, perhaps, because you are used to listen other speakers that are bright. Just give yourself some time to get accustomed to them. Vandersteen have a very good reputation in the audiophile´s circle. Soon you will be enjoying them very much.

Happy listening!
Last edited by roberto on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
ML CLX speakers, BF-210 sub, Classic One Twenty SE amp. ET-7 C-J pre. Exasound E-32DAC, Mac Mini i7, Anthem MCA-3 power amp, Anthem AVM-60, Oppo BDP-103. ML Stage X Center, Motion 4, BPTSignature 3.5 Plus condiciones.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:04 am

roberto wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:31 pm
Andrey,

I do believe that the cost of the driven won´t matter. This might the reason why the seller did sell them. On the other hand, you got a very good price. The apparent lack of high frequency is, perhaps, because you are used to listen other speakers that are bright. Just give yourself some time to get accustomed to them. Vandersteen have a very good reputation in the audiophile´s circle. Soon you will be enjoying them very much.

Happy listening!
Sure. Yes, this may be the case.
Thanks! )

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:55 am

Fixed it locally. Had a local speaker guy disassemble the faulty driver (which was indeed de-centered) and assemble it back again. Performs flawlessly now.
Still waiting for that preamp to burn-in completely. So far it is not up to speed in the upper register: the treble and upper midbass. Sounds still a bit mushy, but better than before. Changed speaker wires to Nordost, got a slightly better treble.
Contemplating replacing the tube to a Genalex or a Siemens.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:50 am

Hi Jazz,
That’s great news and a weight off your mind..... your ET3 will still need time despite not having Teflon Caps (mine was the none Teflon version too) and still took ages, if I’m honest about 3 months it continued open up and get bigger, dropped in the base, opening up more in those frequency exstreams and became much cleaner and clearer.
Valve wise you won’t be able to tell until your ET3 has settled down I’d start with the Golden Lion first as it’s cost effective and
You might be happy with it a good valve... just my tupence worth but judge everything against the stock valve which as your pre beds in will start to sound better than you think.
Jonathan.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:38 pm

Jonathan, thanks. I must confess, I already thought of getting rid of it: it takes so much time to start performing well...

Also, just how much is the SE version better than the regular version?

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:02 pm

Well that really depends on who your prepared to listen too personally (l now own the ET5) and think yes while it’s better than my old ET3 it is in no way 6.5k better I wouldn’t for instance go from the ET3 Standard to the Se version but if you can get a ET5 at a good price then that would be the way to go for me. (Or perhaps the classic se as that seems to have a very good reputation) I paid 4K for a brand new ET5 (They were 9.5k) so I figured that worth it
In terms of actual money v performance then it’s about 1k better in sound quality better than my previous ET3. Always the law of diminishing returns with HFi above a certain price point. I’d say system synergy gives a better pay back if your lucky enough for all your system to perform more than the sum of their individual parts.....
Since adding my Premier 350sa I can live with mine for the foreseeable future I had the MF2500 before that with the ET3 and it really did sound good with a pair of PMC 23 it just worked.....
My current system is better but certainly not by a large amount and not in any way by the amount I’ve spent but I had a good starting point with my previous system.
Not sure if any of that is helpful but I’m sure you’ll understand what I mean....
Jonathan.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:27 pm

JONTY wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:02 pm
Well that really depends on who your prepared to listen too personally (l now own the ET5) and think yes while it’s better than my old ET3 it is in no way 6.5k better I wouldn’t for instance go from the ET3 Standard to the Se version but if you can get a ET5 at a good price then that would be the way to go for me. (Or perhaps the classic se as that seems to have a very good reputation) I paid 4K for a brand new ET5 (They were 9.5k) so I figured that worth it
In terms of actual money v performance then it’s about 1k better in sound quality better than my previous ET3. Always the law of diminishing returns with HFi above a certain price point. I’d say system synergy gives a better pay back if your lucky enough for all your system to perform more than the sum of their individual parts.....
Since adding my Premier 350sa I can live with mine for the foreseeable future I had the MF2500 before that with the ET3 and it really did sound good with a pair of PMC 23 it just worked.....
My current system is better but certainly not by a large amount and not in any way by the amount I’ve spent but I had a good starting point with my previous system.
Not sure if any of that is helpful but I’m sure you’ll understand what I mean....
Jonathan.
I think I do. I will wait somewhat longer for the ET3 to actually demonstrate what it is capable of. If not... well, let's hope it lives up to my expectations.
As a matter of fact, listening to it during the day is a pain: it sounds good at times, and bad at times. This was mentioned before, but I couldn't believe it. I do now. So I guess I am halfway there.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:39 pm

Yes that’s exactly what they do... good one minute noteably not good at all the next, to a point where you begin to doubt that you heard it sound any good at all... personally I didn’t experience any major difference between my caps in the ET3 bedding in over the Teflon’s in the ET5 they both take ages. A good sign to look out for is when the sound leaves the confines of the speaker Eg. no front to back depth or width then suddenly it’ll just fill the room and then go back again to sounding dead in the water all the sound flat between the speakers and sounding small and veiled.
Trust me it drove me mad so I know how your feeling hang on in there it’ll come.
(One thing to be aware of is your speakers, if the guy you bought them off had them sitting around for months with no music going through them, then they will also take time to wake up and not be performing to their best)
Jonathan.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:20 am

JONTY wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:39 pm
Yes that’s exactly what they do... good one minute noteably not good at all the next, to a point where you begin to doubt that you heard it sound any good at all... personally I didn’t experience any major difference between my caps in the ET3 bedding in over the Teflon’s in the ET5 they both take ages. A good sign to look out for is when the sound leaves the confines of the speaker Eg. no front to back depth or width then suddenly it’ll just fill the room and then go back again to sounding dead in the water all the sound flat between the speakers and sounding small and veiled.
Trust me it drove me mad so I know how your feeling hang on in there it’ll come.
(One thing to be aware of is your speakers, if the guy you bought them off had them sitting around for months with no music going through them, then they will also take time to wake up and not be performing to their best)
Jonathan.
I guess CJ needs to change their marketing slogan into "It just sounds right. After a while"
:lol:

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by roberto » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:53 pm

Hola chicos...here are members that do not believe in brake in time. I really respect them, but my ears tell me other things too as you.

Happy listening!
Last edited by roberto on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ML CLX speakers, BF-210 sub, Classic One Twenty SE amp. ET-7 C-J pre. Exasound E-32DAC, Mac Mini i7, Anthem MCA-3 power amp, Anthem AVM-60, Oppo BDP-103. ML Stage X Center, Motion 4, BPTSignature 3.5 Plus condiciones.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Hola Roberto,
That’s true and it can be significant as some audiophiles bear witness too, some people prefer to use the science to demonstrate that cap burn in doesn’t and can’t make any difference on paper, they also tend to be the ones who believe cable also can’t sound different as the science doesn’t support it.
The Hifi community is still quite polorzed on the subject.
Jonathan.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by roberto » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:04 pm

They work with the immediate memory, which is very easy to get confused. Our immediate memory only last in a trained ears, only 15 to 20 seconds. Just the time to do a change, its enough for lose the immediate memory. A reason why, when I am going to any change and observation, having paper and pencil on hand, ready to write about any musical part with the time where the event is happening. I do first A, them B. Then B and go back to A. The time for test A and then test B, is 20 to 30 minutes on each.

This time its enough to get the music into my brain and I write my findings. I write what I do like and what I do not...usually using onlyup three musical instruments not more. It is easier this way. Then I listen the same songs and do write what I do like and what I do not. It does not has to be the same musical moments...just write your findings and where (time is easier) that is happening. Then later, listen to your findings A and B. What you liked most is what you should try. Getting accustomed to a new sound takes more than a week. If you can, spend the time with the new device, and write your findings. Not necessary the new device has be better.

The first musical notes are very important because you are accustomed to A, and now listening to B, the difference in quality, stage and timbre, size of the instrument, and the feeling of the musician playing is easier to appreciate the differences, and I should say this is for me. Perhaps for you too. But each of us, have developed a way to listen this differences and this is what matters. Usually I chose three instruments, the clarinet, the guitar and the piano. Clarinet with cello I should say. Piano solo and jazz trio with percussion, like Steve Davis. Here is an example of what I chose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWdHcEHLp_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBnwDTAoAC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhXBcTW24sw

What I do like, not necessary must be your liking...I wish to you a very happy listening!
ML CLX speakers, BF-210 sub, Classic One Twenty SE amp. ET-7 C-J pre. Exasound E-32DAC, Mac Mini i7, Anthem MCA-3 power amp, Anthem AVM-60, Oppo BDP-103. ML Stage X Center, Motion 4, BPTSignature 3.5 Plus condiciones.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by JONTY » Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:02 pm

Hi Roberto,
It sounds like a good formula I often think that people confuse different with better when it actually sounds worse and I think we are all guilty to varying degrees especially when purchasing new equipment you convince yourself it sounds better and is an improvement partly becouse you want it to be, reading all the reviews ect and you’ve just parted with a load of money when actually it just sounds tonally different and not necessarily better.
Certainly from my own experience 6 months down the line when your over the excitement of your new purchase you actually find you preferred your system how it was before the change.
It’s also a very fragile balance when changing components as you have already swoped things around, valves cables speakers ect to get the sound you like and changing one component can upset that balance and you end up then spending loads of money to put it back to how it was before the changes again it can often result in a chain reaction...!! we’ve all been there I’m sure.
This is one reason I now keep my old equipment for at least 6 months and always put it back again later between 3-6 months taking out the newly purchased component/speakers and you’ll be surprised at how clear the changes are and which piece you do actually prefer.
I find this a good way of actually knowing if I’ve improved my system or not and if the money has been well spent. Another formula to consider...
Jonathan.

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Re: ET3 burn in period?

Post by Jazzz » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:06 pm

roberto wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:04 pm
They work with the immediate memory, which is very easy to get confused. Our immediate memory only last in a trained ears, only 15 to 20 seconds. Just the time to do a change, its enough for lose the immediate memory. A reason why, when I am going to any change and observation, having paper and pencil on hand, ready to write about any musical part with the time where the event is happening. I do first A, them B. Then B and go back to A. The time for test A and then test B, is 20 to 30 minutes on each.

This time its enough to get the music into my brain and I write my findings. I write what I do like and what I do not...usually using onlyup three musical instruments not more. It is easier this way. Then I listen the same songs and do write what I do like and what I do not. It does not has to be the same musical moments...just write your findings and where (time is easier) that is happening. Then later, listen to your findings A and B. What you liked most is what you should try. Getting accustomed to a new sound takes more than a week. If you can, spend the time with the new device, and write your findings. Not necessary the new device has be better.

The first musical notes are very important because you are accustomed to A, and now listening to B, the difference in quality, stage and timbre, size of the instrument, and the feeling of the musician playing is easier to appreciate the differences, and I should say this is for me. Perhaps for you too. But each of us, have developed a way to listen this differences and this is what matters. Usually I chose three instruments, the clarinet, the guitar and the piano. Clarinet with cello I should say. Piano solo and jazz trio with percussion, like Steve Davis. Here is an example of what I chose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWdHcEHLp_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBnwDTAoAC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhXBcTW24sw

What I do like, not necessary must be your liking...I wish to you a very happy listening!
Privet Roberto!
Nice methodology :-) music is great, too, although I can't open the last piece.

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